Smaller guitar body for shoulder discomfort?

walrus

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So....

I've been thinking about a smaller bodied guitar. Not sure I'm going to make the move, but have been gathering information.

The recent thread about the F-47R on reverb made me wonder about guitar body sizes. I had been focusing on F-30's, and had not considered F-40 size guitars.

Here's my very specific issue - I'm considering this because my D64 is getting to be a bit uncomfortable on my right shoulder. I have seen other posts and I know this is not that uncommon among LTGers - I'm getting old, and a broken right collarbone about 15 years ago doesn't help either.

I have posted before about my quest for an electric guitar after multiple surgeries and ending up with my PRS Hollowbody for it's lightness and comfort (among other things - it is the end of that quest!).

So I'm debating if I need another quest for a smaller bodied acoustic. I want to be able to play guitar! For several hours at a time if I want - not asking much!

So - thoughts on body size? I can tell the dread is "lifting" my right shoulder up. I've played around with positioning, etc, but I really think a smaller body might help. No issues with the PRS, but of course that body size is quite a bit smaller.

One thing I know I can get on LTG - your opinions!

walrus
 

adorshki

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You may well have missed my several comments that my F65ce became my "go-to" for comfort, I think it's been a couple of years already, or close to it.
It's an F40 derivative, 16" lower bout but extra shallow, too.
It'd probably feel just like an ultra-light electric to you, but 2 caveats:
If you go long scale ('95 and up) it's got a 1-5/8 nut.
Up through some time in '94 they were 24-3/4 scale with 1-11/16 nut.
Those, and the maple topped versions have been reported as not quite fully satisfying, in the unplugged mode.
So I started thinking that a full-depth F40 or F47 would still give me all of the sonic calories with none of the stress.
:friendly_wink:
 
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walrus

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Your "comfort" comments are one of the reasons I posted! It's what I am also thinking about. But whatever I get has to sound good unplugged. I'm not expecting the volume of my dread, but that's fine.

walrus
 

adorshki

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But whatever I get has to sound good unplugged.

walrus

For a while there the F65ce, even at a mere 3.5 (arched back inches) deep, was actually the sonic equal of the D40, back when the D40 was still the sonic runt of the litter.
It still gives up very little to either dread.
Remember "A Scally Cap, a Madras shirt and an F65ce." ?
Video's gone now but if you thought it was giving respectable volume on a cell phone no less, there's your benchmark.
Thus my deduction that a full depth F40 or F47 should give "all of the calories and none of the stress"...
:friendly_wink:
 

dreadnut

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FYI, my friend's F65ce sounds pretty good acoustically, my other friend's F5ce not so much.
 

tommym

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Some of the deep body Guild F30's (some as deep as 4 3/4" at the end pin) are definitely not as comfortable for the shoulder as the shallower Guild F30's.

Tommy
 

walrus

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Some of the deep body Guild F30's (some as deep as 4 3/4" at the end pin) are definitely not as comfortable for the shoulder as the shallower Guild F30's.

Tommy

Tommy, do mean "deep body Guild F47's"? If so, I was wondering about that.

walrus
 

adorshki

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Tommy, do mean "deep body Guild F47's"? If so, I was wondering about that.

walrus

I think he actually meant F30's as he's a big F30 fan and the "larger" version did get that deep, but the real question could well be "Tommy, how tall are you?"
:biggrin-new:
(Note I'm only 5'8" myself.)
And I do see how body depth could be at least equally as important as lower bout and waist shape, depending on your playing posture....dare I go on?
:biggrin-new:
 

walrus

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I think he actually meant F30's as he's a big F30 fan and the "larger" version did get that deep, but the real question could well be "Tommy, how tall are you?"
:biggrin-new:
(Note I'm only 5'8" myself.)
And I do see how body depth could be at least equally as important as lower bout and waist shape, depending on your playing posture....dare I go on?
:biggrin-new:

Ah yes, I misread that - sorry, Tommy!

walrus
 

tommym

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I am 5'-7" so a deep body F30 does indeed feel more substantial in size compared to a thinner bodied F30. When I switch from my 1973 F30 (deep body) to my 2011 F30 Standard, it's like "wow" this is much more comfortable.

Tommy
 

Bonneville88

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Walrus, was considering the question while I was just comparing an F20, really small body, to a D4,
playing the same tunes on each guitar. Noticed I'm tending to hunch over more to play the F20, but
right shoulder is indeed lower and right arm is obviously not pushed out as far on the
F20 as it is with the D4. Making a mental note to try sitting up straighter with the F20 and see if
that results in workable or awkward body position. Have noted the same tendency switching from
an F50 to an F30 in a jam session, noting back discomfort after awhile playing the F30 that
I don't get with the F50.
 

tommym

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Yeah.....hunching over / back pain.....I have to work on my guitar posture too.

Tommy
 

walrus

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Should have said this already, but I play mostly standing up. I have been trying different strap positions, but as Tommy described with his two different F30's, I think it may be the thickness of the body making the most difference, along with the overall body szie.

walrus
 
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Bonneville88

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Got it. I don't play standing up any more. Like Tommy was mentioning, maybe check out one of the narrower-body F30s - I just measured the NH F30R,
it's widest point of the body is at the end pin, where it's little less than 4 3/8" deep, and where the arm goes over the side,
I measured about 4 3/16". Just got out a Westerly D35 to compare, it measured about 4 7/8" at the same spot.
 

fronobulax

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Yeah.....hunching over / back pain.....I have to work on my guitar posture too.

Tommy

Should have said this already, buy I play mostly standing up. I have been trying different strap positions, but as Tommy described with his two different F30's, I think it may be the thickness of the body making the most difference, along with the overall body szie.

walrus

Several bass sites recommend playing seated as much as possible. Even a light bass will get heavy and start to hurt if you play long enough. They also recommend a posture that for a right handed player, elevates the right foot and has the instrument's waist resting on the right leg. The angle of the instrument to your body makes a difference and there are places to rest hands and arms so they are under little to no stress when not playing. I just discovered these tricks a few weeks ago and many of my playing related aches and pains have gone. I would recommend doing some research on good playing posture because things will probably feel better if you change some things besides the guitar.
 

walrus

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Thanks, frono - sitting doesn't work well for me because of surgeries I've had. My "front" has been opened up and sliced and diced more than once. Kidney transplant, two nephrectomies, hernia repair - hopefully done now! I find sitting too long - at least with a guitar on my lap - to be uncomfortable.

And also, I should add that even before it was comfort issue, I have always liked playing while standing. I'm a bit "active" while playing...

walrus
 

Westerly Wood

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interestingly enough Walrus, i find the dreadnought shape to "keep" my right shoulder in place. When I play a smaller body style, I get pain. Odd I know. Most likely from poor posture playing dreads since age whatever. that being said, Jumbos are not comfortable. I am kind of locked into the dread. Interested to follow this post to hear your own findings.
 

Br1ck

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No Guild content but here is my experience. I never owned a dread until three years ago. My main guitar for 25 years was a Martin M36. This is a jumbo shaped guitar, but is as shallow as an OM, so no great reach over the body. I believe this is the reason I can play dreads today with 67 year old shoulders that sometimes have tendonitis unrelated to guitar. In my quest to have many sized guitars, I have parlor, 00, 0000, slope and dread.

My smaller guitars are 12 fret, slot head instruments. Very compact and comfortable. My Martin 00 15 custom is my go to when the body is cranky. Actually, mandolin is these days but that is another glorious topic.

I guess if you want to stick with Guild, it would be the M 20 or F 30. But a 12 fret keeps your left shoulder happy by not having to reach. A 12 fret plays one sie bigger too, because the body moves more air.

If your discomfort comes and goes, you can manage it by switching guitars. You weren't considering selling anything, were you?

Now nothing is going to be a dread but a dread, but moving to a smaller guitar opens up entirely new tonal possibilities.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Post spinal surgery I almost always play standing up. I've too found that elevating my right leg on a stool, my bed (sits fairly low) or a small amp and then resting the guitar on that leg helps a lot with playing comfort. My acoustics are now mostly smaller-bodied models: F-20, Gibson B-25N, Martin 0-15, Waterloo WL-K (made by Collings), Taylor 512C. I sometimes play thin-bodied electric archtops unplugged too, particularly an old Kay Jazz II that's surprisingly loud and full for a guitar with a plywood body and pickups.

-Dave-
 

mavuser

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those deeper bodied long scale F-30s and F-20s (and M-20s) are deceivingly different beasts. its basically like playing a dread. for me it (1976 F-20) fell into the same category as a Fender Mustang guitar- something was just off compared to what im used to. I could get used to playing them, but there was no need to. i do have a 70s F-112 now, which feels all kinds of perfect, so perhaps the long scale F-30 would not seem quite as wonky as the long scale F-20 did. i have played a short scale F-30 or 2 and those just felt right (same w short scale F-20/M-20). I do find some dreads extremely uncomfortable, most notably with the arched backs. however, the flat back D-25 feels and sounds so good im up to 3 of them (yikes!). I also have a flat back G-312 which is seemingly a monster but i seem to have a good handle on her (that definitely took a while and some patience however was well worth getting used to) 17 inch jumbos are out for me and 16 inch (mini) jumbos are untested. a nice ss F-20 will feel just like playing an electric and I have yet to find any other pure acoustic guitar that comes close to the F-20 in that regard in itself, not even to mention along w the F-20 tone. I only play standing up with a strap. nothing can touch the F-20 in that regard. step up to the F-30 short scale or flat back D-25 if an F-20 is just too little, for one reason or another. I originally thought I wanted a songbird, but turned out an F-20 with a pickup was the ticket
 
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