Guild Luthiers

merlin6666

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During the history of Guild, they not only had periods of geographic location, but also periods where their guitar designs were associated with notable luthiers who also had made their mark outside of Guild. I think the main ones were:

1960s to 1970s - Carlo Greco
1980s to 1990s - Kim Walker
1990s to 2000s - Bob Benedetto
2010s - Ren Ferguson

Did I miss some other notable individuals that contributed in between those masters, and what are some of the specific models that can be attributed to their influence?
 

Stuball48

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Who was instrumental in the DV models? Am I correct in thinking my 1993 DV52 has a D50 neck and D55 body?
 

chazmo

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I'm trying to remember the fellow's name who had the reins while Guild was in Tacoma... I think it was Donnie Wade (?) I don't know if he was a luthier, but he was involved in some important decision making during that era (and probably before).

Also, while I don't know how much involvement he had in the US lines, but there was a Fender fellow who pretty much owned the MIC Guild line and did a terrific job bringing in value instruments under the Guild name. He had a long history with Guild, but I can't recall his name. HE spoke to/with us at one of the Let's Meet Guild events in New Hartford.
 

chazmo

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Heya, Mark. No, that's not the guy I was referring to. But, now that you mention it, Mike Lewis definitely deserves special mention for bringing the "Newark Street" line to life in Korea. I'm not sure if Mike is a luthier, but I recall he was a driving force in making that happen.

Gosh, I wish I could remember that guy's name who worked on the MIC (GAD) acoustic products...
 

adorshki

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Who was instrumental in the DV models? Am I correct in thinking my 1993 DV52 has a D50 neck and D55 body?
I think that's too simplistic and probably not exactly correct.
Better to think of it as an evolution of the D50.
From the '97 catalog (Guild Gallery #1):
"The DV series guitars are the product of research in how to tune the bodies and tops of these guitars too sound like vintage guitars.
The DV6 has a solid mahogany back and sides that have ben sanded down. The mahogany neck and end block have been specially selected for light weight and superior strength.
The top is double-A graded sitka spruce and has shaved braces....
The DV52 is built to same exacting standards, with solid rosewood back and sides....the solid spruce top has Guild scalloped bracing."
So 2 differences from D55 right off the top:
D55's got AAA tops.
Lots of folks would consider that a cosmetic upgrade only but that's one difference.
Also, D55's were ALWAYS gloss finish, whereas early DV52s were only available in satin.
I don't remember when the gloss option was introduced.
I don't recall if there's been discussion abut whether or not the satin has equal tone to the gloss finish, but I can't recall anybody ever faulting a DV52 for tone.
And while that same '97 catalog shows D55's getting scalloped braces, that has varied over the course of production.
Who was instrumental in the DV models?
Gruhn?

Gruhn was long gone when the first DV, the DV52 showed up.
But wouldn't surprise me if Kim Walker had a big hand or at least planted the seeds that finally sprouted, since he's been cited as the guy who started "lightening up" the builds after Gruhn left.
Walker was Gruhn's protégé, actually built the Nightbird prototype while working at Gruhn's shop, "IIRC", and went to Guild with him, and stayed on after Gruhn left, think that was '87 or '88.
I forget his exact title.
Don't recall when he departed, if I ever knew.
We've discussed in past but I'm too lazy to search right now.
Search "Gruhn", you'll get a lot of hits, but my favorite's this one:
https://www.vintageguitar.com/3275/1985-guild-nightbird-prototype/
:friendly_wink:

Gruhn WAS directly responsible for the F44, and F46, and a couple of dreadnoughts which model numbers I forget now; D64 and D66?
There's also a "Walker D60"
And the S4ce/Songbird is a direct derivative of the Nightbird, so that one's a "Gruhn-Walker" baby.
 
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Stuball48

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I think that's too simplistic and probably not exactly correct.
Better to think of it as an evolution of the D50.
From the '97 catalog (Guild Gallery #1):
"The DV series guitars are the product of research in how to tune the bodies and tops of these guitars too sound like vintage guitars.
The DV6 has a solid mahogany back and sides that have ben sanded down. The mahogany neck and end block have been specially selected for light weight and superior strength.
The top is double-A graded sitka spruce and has shaved braces....
The DV52 is built to same exacting standards, with solid rosewood back and sides....the solid spruce top has Guild scalloped bracing."
So 2 differences from D55 right off the top:
D55's got AAA tops.
Lots of folks would consider that a cosmetic upgrade only but that's one difference.
Also, D55's were ALWAYS gloss finish, whereas early DV52s were only available in satin.
I don't remember when the gloss option was introduced.
I don't recall if there's been discussion abut whether or not the satin has equal tone to the gloss finish, but I can't recall anybody ever faulting a DV52 for tone.
And while that same '97 catalog shows D55's getting scalloped braces, that has varied over the course of production.


Gruhn was long gone when the first DV, the DV52 showed up.
But wouldn't surprise me if Kim Walker had a big hand or at least planted the seeds that finally sprouted, since he's been cited as the guy who started "lightening up" the builds after Gruhn left.
Walker was Gruhn's protégé, actually built the Nightbird prototype while working at Gruhn's shop, "IIRC", and went to Guild with him, and stayed on after Gruhn left, think that was '87 or '88.
I forget his exact title.
Don't recall when he departed, if I ever knew.
We've discussed in past but I'm too lazy to search right now.
Search "Gruhn", you'll get a lot of hits, but my favorite's this one:
https://www.vintageguitar.com/3275/1985-guild-nightbird-prototype/
:friendly_wink:

Gruhn WAS directly responsible for the F44, and F46, and a couple of dreadnoughts which model numbers I forget now; D64 and D66?
There's also a "Walker D60"
And the S4ce/Songbird is a direct derivative of the Nightbird, so that one's a "Gruhn-Walker" baby.
Al:
Thank you and you have enlightened me on the DV models. I knew none of the above information. I have never been in the Gruhn Guitar building on 8th avenue in Nashville although only 40 miles east of me. Lots of folks say he has a case of the "Me Me" disease. I know he knows more about guitars than 99% of the people on planet Earth but I choose to deal with Walter Carter about a 1/2 mile farther south on same 8th avenue at Carter's Vintage Guitars.
 

beecee

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When I mentioned Gruhn I meant as an influence overall, not specific to the DV series.
 

adorshki

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When I mentioned Gruhn I meant as an influence overall, not specific to the DV series.

YAH I realized that right after I hit "submit".
And then realized it was a good reason to go ahead and edit by noting models he was absolutely known to have done for Guild.
Sorry 'bout that, chief!


Al:
Thank you and you have enlightened me on the DV models. I knew none of the above information.
And why I cited the source, which also goes on to say that the DV52 was chosen as the basic building block (my term) for the (just opened at the time) Nashville Custom Shop guitars.
Which many would consider to be the next step above a D55....
:friendly_wink:
I have never been in the Gruhn Guitar building on 8th avenue in Nashville although only 40 miles east of me. Lots of folks say he has a case of the "Me Me" disease. I know he knows more about guitars than 99% of the people on planet Earth but I choose to deal with Walter Carter about a 1/2 mile farther south on same 8th avenue at Carter's Vintage Guitars.
Right, I don't idolize him either, in fact I never heard of him 'til I joined here, but he's absolutely a significant figure in Guild design history and was even an owner for a while.
Now Carlo Greco, there's a guy whose specific designs need to be ID'd in this thread.
I'm pretty sure the F612 was his baby, and the classicals, but wonder if the F50 might be his baby, or the F40?
Can't recall, if I ever saw it.
 
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GardMan

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I think that's too simplistic and probably not exactly correct.
Better to think of it as an evolution of the D50.
From the '97 catalog (Guild Gallery #1):
"The DV series guitars are the product of research in how to tune the bodies and tops of these guitars too sound like vintage guitars.
The DV6 has a solid mahogany back and sides that have ben sanded down. The mahogany neck and end block have been specially selected for light weight and superior strength.
The top is double-A graded sitka spruce and has shaved braces....
The DV52 is built to same exacting standards, with solid rosewood back and sides....the solid spruce top has Guild scalloped bracing."
So 2 differences from D55 right off the top:
D55's got AAA tops.
Lots of folks would consider that a cosmetic upgrade only but that's one difference.
Also, D55's were ALWAYS gloss finish, whereas early DV52s were only available in satin.
I don't remember when the gloss option was introduced.
I don't recall if there's been discussion abut whether or not the satin has equal tone to the gloss finish, but I can't recall anybody ever faulting a DV52 for tone.
And while that same '97 catalog shows D55's getting scalloped braces, that has varied over the course of production.

Scalloped braces in D-50s appeared around 1987 (a little earlier if you consider the short-lived D-52 to be a D-50 with scalloped bracing), and scalloped bracing appeared in the D-55 model around 1991 (my '92 had scalloped bracing... its top was built in May of that year). So both pre-dated the DV series.

My understanding from Beesley's book is that the DV-52 was introduced in 1992 in HR finish only, and the DV-62 introduced in 1993 was (essentially) the DV-52 in gloss with herringbone purfling. SNs for the DV-52 HG first show up in the SN list in 1995, but I thought I had seen HG versions from earlier (maybe late 94?), but maybe not? Note that many early DV-52s were mis-labeled as D-52s, which was a short-lived model from the mid-80s.

The limited edition DV-7X series based off the DV-52/62 model was introduced with the DV-72 in 1993 (about 250 made in 93 and 94), and the DV-73 (~50 in 94 & 95), 74 (about 22 made?), 76 (about 19 made?), and 82 (only one prototype?) between '93 and '96. The DV-6 was introduced towards the end of the DV run, ~'95 or '96.

From my experience with the DV-7X, I certainly would not consider that line to be "lightened-up."Although they may have tops that were subjected to more meticulous sanding/thicknessing and scalloped braces to achieve vintage sound, they are among the heaviest of the 11 Guild dreads I have owned over the years, all weighing in over 5.75 lbs (where as my '72 D-35 weights just 4.25 lbs).

As far as I know, none of the DV series was ever built in Nashville... but they may have provided the basic outline for models that were.
 
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adorshki

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Scalloped braces in D-50s appeared around 1987 (a little earlier if you consider the short-lived D-52 to be a D-50 with scalloped bracing), and scalloped bracing appeared in the D-55 model around 1991 (my '92 had scalloped bracing... its top was built in May of that year). So both pre-dated the DV series.
Oh yeah, didn't mean to imply the scalloped braces were a first on the DV52, but definitely that I couldn't remember when they first appeared on a D55 (assuming they didn't come and go prior to '91)

From my experience with the DV-7X, I certainly would not consider that line to be "lightened-up."Although they may have tops that were subjected to more meticulous sanding/thicknessing and scalloped braces to achieve vintage sound, they are among the heaviest of the 11 Guild dreads I have owned over the years, all weighing in over 5.75 lbs (where as my '72 D-35 weights just 4.25 lbs).
Nothing was said about sanding the tops, only the backs and sides.
I point that out because it's been assumed before, being a known method of "tuning a top" and it's what one would expect.
SO it MIGHT have been done but I've never seen a specific statement to that effect.
And maybe that blurb just left it out in error, as has been known to happen with Guild lit..but it was transcribed exactly. I only left out irrelevant material.
Interestingly I think Walker was gone by the '93 date for the later DV-7x models, but not sure.
One would think that being so heavy they didn't have sanded-down bodies...not that that ever appears to have held Guilds back tone-wise, historically.

As far as I know, none of the DV series was ever built in Nashville... but they may have provided the basic outline for models that were.
I don't think any were made there either, but the exact quote in that G.G #1 is:
"The DV52 is widely recognized as the best value in the acoustic realm and it was chosen as the basis for the Guild Custom Shop models"
:friendly_wink:
 

dreadnut

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Seems to me by the time they were producing D-50's in Tacoma, they were essentially upgraded to DV-52 specs.
 

adorshki

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Seems to me by the time they were producing D-50's in Tacoma, they were essentially upgraded to DV-52 specs.
Given comments about lightness, you're probably on to something, except in Tacoma all the bracing was "Adi", allowing thinner braces to be as strong as the traditional sitka braces,
Also, from what I can dig up using the Wayback Machine (link here, no joke: https://web.archive.org/web/*/www.guildguitars.com), D50's didn't even get made until late in the game ('06 or '07) in Tacoma, and were only made in the "Bluegrass Jubilee" version that got Adi tops.
There's also the headstock shape issue for those of us (like me) that believe even headstock shape can have a subtle effect on tone.
DV-52's got "snakeheads" (another Gruhn-introduced detail) but Tacoma D50's got the traditional "paddlehead"
Back to Chaz's comment, I think Donnie Wade is correct, just 'cause the name rings a bell, and Tacoma was a relative hotbed of experimentation and innovation:
The first known use of Adi; the introduction of the ill-fated Contemporary series with the bolt-on-necks and "Spider" bracing; the dual action truss rod; and the introduction of single truss rod with flanking stabilizers in 12-strings.
That I know of and can remember.
 
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SFIV1967

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I'm trying to remember the fellow's name who had the reins while Guild was in Tacoma... I think it was Donnie Wade (?) I don't know if he was a luthier, but he was involved in some important decision making during that era (and probably before).
Donnie Wade came from FMIC. He has been building acoustic guitars for a living since 1972. He did at one time run Jackson and joined FMIC when they bought Jackson. He was responsible for the Guild GAD line as well as the guitars out of Tacoma.
https://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/donnie-wade
Ralf
 

chazmo

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Ralf, that's cool. Donnie wasn't the guy I was referring to who addressed us at LMG, though. At that time (2013?) the other fellow who we spoke to was handling the MIC Guilds.
 

SFIV1967

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Not to forget some great luthiers working in the Guild Custom Shop in Nashville starting 1997. Bruce Bolen (Guitar design), Tim Shaw (Guitar design and Pickup guru), Mark Kendrick (Master Builder), John Kornau (Senior Builder), Evan Ellis (Master Builder), Thane Shearon (Builder),… Later in Corona starting late 2001 Chris Fleming (Master Builder) and Yuriy Shishkov (Master Builder) to name a few worked on Guild guitars.

However to come back to merlin's question, I don't think any of them designed a new type of Guild guitar as the mentioned four in the original post did (Carlo Greco, Kim Walker, Bob Benedetto, Ren Ferguson).

Ralf
 
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fronobulax

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Interesting question but it is already clear to me that some definitions might provide focus. Some people designed instruments and that design became iconic. Some people built instruments and their techniques became embodied in numerous models. Some people were visionaries and said "we need this" and made it happen. Ren at New Hartford arguably did all three but he only set up the building techniques for Cordoba. (We can revisit this if Oxnard reintroduces the Orpheums).
 
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