1958 M-65 Cherry Finish

Vermonter

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I recently picked up a 1958 full scale M-65 Freshman and I have a couple questions. First... how unusual is the cherry finish? I haven’t seen any. It seems these are usually sunburst. Second, is there an issue with what they used on the headstocks? There is no badge or logo, and the paint looks far more worn than the body. A local luthier told me they sometimes had a covering on the headstock that would deteriorate, and people would eventually remove it. This looks all original except the tuners.
 

DThomasC

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Oh man. If only you had posted at least half a dozen good quality photos. If you had, then you would have generated so much interest and discussion that by the time it was over you would know more about that guitar than anyone that owned it previously.

But, no photos. Good thing it's not too late. To find out how to put up photos in LTG, follow this link: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?185122-FAQ-Posting-pictures-to-LTG

EDIT: I was just joking about half-dozen being a minimum. Think of it as a private joke I was having with myself. Any photo you can come up with will help. But better is better, if you know what I mean.
 
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fronobulax

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Welcome. Guild used a headstock overlay that sometimes shrank. Sometimes the fix was to just take it off and the overlays came with it. But I usually hear that story about mid to late '60's instruments so 1958 might be too early.
 

Vermonter

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1958 m-65

c5b753ff-ef90-4f2c-9c0b-52d370e19f29.jpeg
Oh man. If only you had posted at least half a dozen good quality photos. If you had, then you would have generated so much interest and discussion that by the time it was over you would know more about that guitar than anyone that owned it previously.

But, no photos. Good thing it's not too late. To find out how to put up photos in LTG, follow this link: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?185122-FAQ-Posting-pictures-to-LTG

EDIT: I was just joking about half-dozen being a minimum. Think of it as a private joke I was having with myself. Any photo you can come up with will help. But better is better, if you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]
 

Vermonter

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Thanks, I wonder what’s going on with my headstock then. I hope the pictures I posted are good enough to show how worn the headstock looks compared to the rest of the guitar, even the back of the headstock.
 

mavuser

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nice Freshman M-65. the black overlay with script logo was removed from the headstock. i would just leave it the way it is. id ask whoever gave it to you to look for the original overlay just for laughs

edit: correction, the front of the headstock was painted black w/logo, and flaked off; no black overlay veneer like 1960's- thanks Ralf!
 
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walrus

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Very very cool! That's a birth year for me, and in about the same shape!

walrus
 

DThomasC

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Yeah, that is a cool instrument. I agree that the headstock overlay probably curled up and was simply removed. It's your choice what to do about it, but I would just leave it alone.

Not sure about the cherry finish. Guild usually applied it over mahogany, and I don't recall seeing any archtops with mahogany tops as early as 1958, but I'm nothing like an expert as far as that goes. Is the top mahogany or maple? The only photo where I might be able to tell is the one of the label, and the top is naturally out of focus there (bokeh is very fashionable these days!) But, from that photo it looks like 'hog. I'd have to check Hans's book to see if 'hog or maple was the norm for these. Probably Hans will be along soon. He just likes to wait and see what kind of fools the rest of us make of ourselves. :biggrin:

Otherwise, congrats on a very cool instrument. Wish it were mine.
 

adorshki

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First... how unusual is the cherry finish? I haven’t seen any. It seems these are usually sunburst.
I think you're right, I don't think Cherry was that common, that early.
While looking for clues of a possible re-fin, in the "full frontal" photo, the shade strikes me as "correct" although just a wee bit "blotchy".
That could be just due to lighting and the 'hog top, though.
The headstock face is simply "unfinished", no lacquer was applied after faceplate was removed.
The more I look though, the more I think it's original finish.
 
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Vermonter

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DThomasC, the luthier working on this for me thinks the paint isn’t original. It may have been repainted early in its life. He’s going to refret it and take care of a coupl other smaller issues. I’ll check with him to see what he thinks.
 

dapmdave

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I had a '58 M-65 a few years ago, and I'm somehow thinking that these guitars (at this time) just had a painted/lacquered headstock with a stencilled logo.

Please correct me if I am wrong, of course.
 
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matsickma

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I owned an red mahogany M65 with Franz pickup years ago. I think it was a 1960 model. Unfortunately I can't recall the headstock.

I used to think red mahogany M65's were rare and that may have been true in the 1950's.

However a few years back a number of red mahogany models from the 60's became available. Over that time I picked up three different red 'hog M65's and my brother also found one.
Two had the chrome soapbar single coil from '63/'64 period and one had a Mickey mouse single coil.
My brother picked up a red 'hog with a stock single Franz pickup that someone modified with addition if a 2nd Franz. I also spotted a few more for sale.

So I thought the red mahogany M65's were rare but now I think a fair number of them are out there.

M
 

DThomasC

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Well, my thought was that mahogany tops with red finish started with the Starfire line, which didn't appear until 1960. In other words anything with a mohagany top and red finish before 1960 would be rare. But yeah, mid to late 60's M-65s can be found that way.
 

Vermonter

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I just got this baby back from the luthier’s. He re-fretted it, did some bridge work (kept it all original, just tweaked it), and cleaned up the pots. This plays like butter now. He thinks it was definitely refinished a long, long time ago. It looks like it has a maple top. Everyone who saw it at his shop wanted to buy it. Great tone. I love this guitar!!!!
 

Sal

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Wow, somehow I'd missed this thread. Welcome Vermonter, and thanks for the pics. That is a really cool old Guild!
 

SFIV1967

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Guild used a headstock overlay that sometimes shrank. Sometimes the fix was to just take it off and the overlays came with it.
That was for the guitars with black celluloid headstock veneers only.

the black overlay with script logo was removed from the headstock.
No. That model never had a overlay/veneer. It was just black paint with a gold paint logo.

Now the black NC lacquer over time just fell off! With changes in humidity and temperature the wood works and nitrocellulose lacquer is forever gassing off and when it finally lost a good amount of its solvents it is simply chipping and flaking away from the wood!

That's how it looked like (disregard the wrong tuners here, but Vermonters guitar also has changed tuners):

v2iz007fomgax7ab08xd.jpg


Ralf
 
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