New to Guild - School me on the smaller 12-stings

HeyMikey

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Hey there. My first post here, coming over from AGF....

I just purchased a new F2512e 12-string over the interweb. I don't usually buy without testing first but this time I did based on reviews and my meager budget. Its a nice sounding and good playing guitar. Good action, intonation is spot on all the way up the neck. A very good value. No complaints other than its just too big for me. I thought I would be able to manage the jumbo size, but after 10 minutes my arthritic shoulder is on fire. I tried holding it a couple different ways, like in between my legs more upright but that just didn't work for me.

So now I'm left with the realization that I need to find a smaller 12. I'm of the age where to me a 12 string = Guild. I know that's not quite true these days, but I would like to stay with a Guild if possible to hopefully achieve some of that classic sound I grew up with. However, their current line-up doesn't have anything that that's budget minded in a smaller size these days. The D-1212e just doesn't interest me.

Browsing this forum I saw a reference to westerlyguild guitars and started looking at some specs of older models. It seems like the F112 is one of the smaller 12's that might still be reasonably affordable. I'd need to stay under $1K, preferably $700-800 and not have it need any significant work (e.g., neck reset). Is that even reasonable? What comments or suggestions do you folks have for the F112 or other smaller 12's ? What should I be looking for and expect to find model and condition wise these days?

Thanks,
Mike
 

AcornHouse

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Hi Mike, and, Welcome!
I have a ‘75 F-112, pretty much for the same reasons. It uses the F-30 body, and is very comfortable to hold and play. I think it sounds the way a good 12-string should, Except it isn’t as orchestral huge a sound as the larger 12ers (although still a nice, loud, rich, sound IMHO.)
There are plenty out there, well within your budget. Here’s one at Musicgoround: https://www.musicgoround.com/p/928168/used-guild-f112-acoustic-guitar-black
But there are others; check Reverb, GC, etc...

Thumbs up, from me!

https://reverb.com/marketplace/acoustic-guitars?query=F-112&make=guild
 
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HeyMikey

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Thanks Chris. Being new to Guilds. What should I look for? Are there certain years that are generally favored? Certain appointments, bracing, neck profiles that make one more playable or better sounding than others? Are there certain aspects of Guilds that I should pay extra attention to or stay away from?

I have avg/small hands do generally don’t like baseball bats. Mostly strum and flat pick but now learning finger style.

Chances are that this will not be something I find locally (MA) quickly though I will certainly be looking. More likely this will end up being an online purchase which makes me a big nervous with an oldie.
 

Cougar

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I have a ‘75 F-112, pretty much for the same reasons. It uses the F-30 body, and is very comfortable to hold and play. I think it sounds the way a good 12-string should....

Yes, welcome to the boards! I defer to AcornHouse and others regarding smaller 12ers - I enjoy my jumbos too much. Well.... I did run into a deal that I couldn't refuse ($800-ish) on a Martin GPC12PA4 that's certainly smaller and fun to play though. Not a Guild, but not a bad little 12er...
 

chazmo

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An F-212 would be another suggestion (not an XL version). Still relatively small body. There was a GAD version (MIC) of this guitar at one point that was very nice.

I'd stay away from the dread 12s as well, as those will probably be too big for you (G-312, D-25-12, etc.).

Good luck, Mike!
 

killdeer43

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First of all, WELCOME TO LTG!
My F-112 was a great little 12-string...great sound from such a small box and very comfortable to play.
Now, as most here have known for a while, it's an F112-6 but still sounds great and remains comfortable to play as a 6-string.
:cheerful:

Cheers,
Joe
 

wileypickett

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Hello Mike,

Welcome! I was very impressed with the intonation on the F2512 too, which, I hate to say it, is tighter than some of my classic Westerly Guild 12-strings.

The smaller the body size, the more volume and oomph you'll be giving up. Of the various options, I second the F112 suggestion. Smaller body, still a lot of authority.

Where in MA are you? I'm in Cambridge and have a bunch of Guild strings, both Westerly- and Hoboken-made. If you have the urge to A / B some of the different models -- maybe we can meet up.

Good luck!

Glenn
 

chazmo

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Oooh, I could be in on that too... But I don't have anything small that'd be worth looking at. I have a very Reuben-esque collection, you see... :) The Orpheum's not too too big I suppose. :)
 
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HeyMikey

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Thanks for your replies!

Hi Glenn and Chazmo,

I'm just west of 495 near Hudson. Size wise it looks like the F112 my best option. I see a few out there and am asking questions. I could probably be Ok with a F212 for the time being as the lower is a good 1-1/4 inches smaller than the 2512e I have now. However, I know things are only going to get worse as time goes on so the 112 is the better first choice. I'd rather give up a little sound and enjoy playing more. Maybe down the road a second model might be in order. I played a little bit as a teen, gave it up after college and now 40 years later have found the passion again. For now, I just need to practice, practice, practice so playing comfort is a big factor.

I think my biggest concern will be neck angle the the bridge condition on these old gals, right? I had one say the action was great, played well, his tech raved about it, but a picture I requested showed the frets line up to the middle of the bridge. So I assume this could be about ripe for a reset, right? What else should I ask about? Another told me theirs never had a reset and the neck is perfectly fine... I think I would want proof though. On these 70's models I assume most will need a reset by now. Is that true or have you found that some examples are just extremely stable?

Oh, and Joe...
Your reputation precedes you! I've noticed more than a couple threads already about your famous F112-6 conversion. I have a little reading to do it seems. :wink:

- Mike
 

Butch

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Hi,
I have an F212 which has a smaller jumbo shaped body as well as 3 F512’s and an F612. Truthfully, once you are accustomed to the jumbo sound the smaller body guitars just don’t quite cut it. That of course is just my opinion. They still sound much better than any other 12 string out there. If you are not taking any blood thinning medication, talk to your doctor about taking Turmeric. It is a natural anti inflammatory and you can buy it on Amazon. It really helped both of my shoulders as well as my hands.
 

HeyMikey

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Hey Butch
That’s good feedback. I’m a little concerned never having played a smaller 12 that the sound might be a little thinner than what I have in mind. I’ll keep looking for something local to try. I actually have started taking turmeric and am alternating daily between that and ginger. Maybe it will help a bit with time. Right now it’s ice and vitamin “I” iboprophen. Those jumbo Guilds are so sexy and nothing sounds like them, but I just can’t play more than 10-15 minutes on one. Maybe a mid size might be ok. I’ll keep my eyes peeled.
-Mike
 

chazmo

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Mike, again, good luck in the hunt. I'm outside Worcester, so that's close, but again I don't think I have anything in the collection that would be a valid comparison.

By the way, Taylor and Martin have some nice small-bodied 12s that you should look at too. The "J" style Martin is much smaller than Guild's version of a jumbo, and they have a ton of those out there.

Best wishes.
 

adorshki

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Another told me theirs never had a reset and the neck is perfectly fine... I think I would want proof though. On these 70's models I assume most will need a reset by now. Is that true or have you found that some examples are just extremely stable?
We've seen it both ways.
I suspect the ones that have lasted that long have been especially well-cared for and we've seen evidence recently that early on Guild actually did suggest that 12-ers be tuned down 1/2 or even a whole step, so that probably contributes to the stability too.
(Prior to that there was a lot of belief that they could handle the tension of standard tuning, at least partly due to the dual truss rods)
I do recall one member who reports his neck angle is also still good after being strung at standard pitch its whole life, but I forget what model he has.
And one more "vote" for checking out F212's if F112's turn out to be just too scarce.
 
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Taylor Martin Guild

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Mike,
have you tried playing with a strap on your guitar.
I play a jumbo baritone and without the strap, the guitar is uncomfortable to play.
Suspending the guitar on the strap changes the angle and it is a lot easier to play.

Be sure to adjust the strap a few times to see where it is the most comfortable for you to use.

Report back how it works for you.
 

HeyMikey

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Hi, I did try it with a strap. I'm playing while sitting. If I was standing it probably wouldn't be as bad, bit sitting it is. I just listed the 2512 on CL. I'm keeping my eyes open for local 112's and 212's to try out.
 

Br1ck

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A good friend has an F 112 from the late 70s that is the one I'd go for. He plays Kottesque fingerstyle and the clarity of this guitar is wonderful. A 12 string puts out so many overtones, a small body is a plus, unless you use one for a strummer. An F 312 or 512 is lush for sure. I've favored clarity over all else the older I've gotten.

In fact my only 12 string is an 0 sized Pono.
 
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