JF-30CE?? What do you think?

TBK711

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As some may recall from my first thread here, I am a new guy - I own exactly zero Guilds and have only ever played one - a D55 and fell in love. I am searching for one and with your help have found a few strong contenders.

Well, this just popped up at the GC the next town over from me.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Vintage-1988-JF-30CE-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar.gc

This seems worth a look, right? Any thoughts/impressions/info/experience about this guitar?

I’m thinking I should certainly play it, at least. It is a common Guild shape (JF) that I haven’t felt yet. I think it is an arch back, right? I think probably Westerly? And that is maple, right? All are things I have only read about but not seen, felt, heard for myself. Definitely worth some gas money to go experience tomorrow morning, I think.
 
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richardp69

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Always worth gas money to go try something you've never played before, at least I think so. I have a JF 30 (not the CE) and consider it a fine guitar. It doesn't have the bling and features of the F 50 for example but soundwise it's really very good IMHO and you can find these at what I consider to be a very reasonable price. I've grown to really adore Maple as a tonewood over the years. I couldn't open the link you mentioned but good luck in your search
 

TBK711

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Thanks Richard. Yes, I see the link isn't working. New guy problems, I suppose. Will see if I can fix it.

You mentioned reasonable price - this one is $1k. How does that seem for this model? I haven't had too much luck negotiating GC down on used stuff like they do on new. I'm thinking I just want to play it, not buy it .... but I have said that about other things that I currently own in the past ����
 

richardp69

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Depending upon condition that price isn't too bad. I paid $915 for mine and was not unhappy at that price point. Certainly not unhappy with the guitar regardless. It's a good one for sure.
 

Cougar

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Here for your consideration is a New Hartford built F50 with a "make offer." The pics show good saddle and break angle, and the ruler lines up well with the top of the bridge.

BTW, my Corona-built JF30-12 is excellent.
 

adorshki

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I’m thinking I should certainly play it, at least. It is a common Guild shape (JF) that I haven’t felt yet. I think it is an arch back, right?
Yes, archback 17" lower bout, 5" deep the biggest they made (as standard production).

I think probably Westerly? And that is maple, right?
Yes, started in westerly '87, also built in Corona for first year only, I think.
YES maple.
The archback enhances the bass and smooths out the jangle.
Check the output, at their asking price it should be functional.
Kind of antiquated now but high-end at the time, it's Fishman if it's the original UST.

All are things I have only read about but not seen, felt, heard for myself. Definitely worth some gas money to go experience tomorrow morning, I think.
Absolutely.
Make sure to drink in the visual glories of a late Westerly sitka spruce top.
In sunlight.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
:friendly_wink:
 

bobouz

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My 1994 non-cutaway JF-30 has a very full, rich, and satisfying tone. Beautiful spruce & maple, excellent build quality, and minimal bling (which suits me just fine). Essentially, you get all of Guild's jumbo maple goodness at an affordable price.

Bottom line, this model has potential and is worth a serious look.
 

TBK711

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I am about to head out and check this guitar out.

Also, just noticed that one of my favorite you tube guys, Cliff Edwards, is playing a JF-30C and I have always liked his guitar.

Would someone mind confirming this is in fact a JF-30C maple. Just like the one I am looking at? I have listened to that guitar a bunch; of it is the same model, it will help give me a frame of reference. Thanks, guys!

https://youtu.be/gv9tbpCHyIA

.... ok ... time to go shopping for my first Guild. Will report back later!
 

TBK711

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Well, I am still Guild-less. No purchase made. It is a 1988. It is in fair condition. Some finish checking. Some bumps and bruises. Looks like there may be some slight separation near the binding in a couple spots. The thing that concerned me the most is that the saddle was REALLY sanded down. There was almost no angle on the e string and only slight angle on the others. Based on what you guys are teaching me, it just worried me that there may be neck issues coming - just too rough for me at $1100.

I did enjoy it though. Really heavy, which I liked; I felt like I had something of substance in my hand. The shape was comfortable. I thought the sound was great - nice booming bass but really even distribution across. Sounded awesome pugged in. The strings on it were old and so, with new strings, I think it would play fanstastic.

I would have probably bought it were it not for the saddle. I really liked the sound. I will watch it - maybe if they drop the price a few times, it will be worth it.

For now, I will look elsewhere for my first Guild - back to my D55 contemplations.
 

davismanLV

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The break angle or the downward pressure is what drives the soundboard. So the sound of that guitar was probably slightly compromised. There are plenty of nice guitars out there. Unless you wanted a project or have an amazing luthier that works cheaply, it seems like you were wise to walk away from this one. Keep looking...... :encouragement:
 

adorshki

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I would have probably bought it were it not for the saddle. I really liked the sound. I will watch it - maybe if they drop the price a few times, it will be worth it.

It's possible the saddle has been sanded down simply to satisfy a previous owner's preference for playing feel.
The only way to assess neck angle for sure is to:
A : FIRST verify combined height of bridge and saddle, should be in the neighborhood of 1/2",+/- maybe 1/64", with about 9/16 of that being bridge height at highest point, (also +/- maybe 1/64.)
You need to verify that the bridge itself hasn't been shaved in order for the next check to be valid:
B: the neck alignment check, to verify that the neck angle lines up properly with the height of the bridge:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html
In a nutshell a shaved bridge can make the neck angle look good
So the saddle height is only relevant after bridge height and neck angle are confirmed as good.
1/2" combined bridge/saddle height is a pretty universal target to insure good string energy transfer into the top, and break angle is actually a function of saddle height only.
If you really liked the sound then you might want to go back and give it another assessment.

And yep, that's a JF30c in that vid.
 

beecee

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A : FIRST verify combined height of bridge and saddle, should be in the neighborhood of 1/2",+/- maybe 1/64", with about 9/16 of that being bridge height at highest point, (also +/- maybe 1/64.)
You need to verify that the bridge itself hasn't been shaved in order for the next check to be valid:


Isn't 9/16ths more than the total ideal height of 1/2 inch?
 

Nuuska

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AAaahhhHHH - the never ending delights of non-metrics :watermelon:
 

adorshki

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A : FIRST verify combined height of bridge and saddle, should be in the neighborhood of 1/2",+/- maybe 1/64", with about 9/16 of that being bridge height at highest point, (also +/- maybe 1/64.)
You need to verify that the bridge itself hasn't been shaved in order for the next check to be valid:


Isn't 9/16ths more than the total ideal height of 1/2 inch?

Doh!
:stupid:
Yeah should be about 10/32" bridge height +/- maybe 1/32nd.
Good Catch, I've done that before!
This gettin' old thing ain't all it's cracked up to be.
:glee:
 

TBK711

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Thanks guys - I am a little confused, but I will study the link and I may head back to re-assess it.

I made an offer on a D55 on reverb, but was rejected. So, still guildless ... for now.

I appreciate all the help!
 

adorshki

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Thanks guys - I am a little confused, but I will study the link and I may head back to re-assess it.

I made an offer on a D55 on reverb, but was rejected. So, still guildless ... for now.

I appreciate all the help!

NO snark intended, but back to combined bridge and saddle height:
1/2" of string height above soundboard, at the front of the bridge, is a very common standard to ensure that there's enough tension exerted on the top for good energy transfer from the strings while still allowing for reasonable action height at 12th fret.
So bridge height is ideally around 5/16 and saddle height around 3/16, subject to "tolerance" on both of 'em. Add those heights together, you get your ideal 1/2" combined bridge and saddle height.
When Guild set necks, they had bridges ready to install of various heights, and would select a bridge that matched the neck angle after it was set.
The point of Frank Ford's tutorial was to show how to check that the neck angle is properly aligned with the height of the bridge, but the bridge must be of appropriate height for that alignment check to be "valid".
Here's why:
Ideally you want a straightedge laid along a neck to line up perfectly with the top of the bridge. You can then adjust saddle height to achieve the desired action height at the 12th fret.
BUT a straightedge that's starting to collapse into the top will wind up extending to a point below the top of an unshaved bridge.
IF the bridge is shaved though, the alignment check will look "good" even though the bridge and saddle aren't actually tall enough to put the optimum amount of energy into the top anymore.
The height of the saddle is relevant because the angle of the strings over it ("break angle") also affects how much energy is put into the bridge and thus into the top.
So a "low saddle" could be a sign of compensating for a collapsing neck or simply somebody having lowered it for a really "slinky" playing feel with very low action on the neck.
The only way to know for sure about the health of the neck though, is to do the neck alignment check.
(Although I guess if you find that action at the 12th fret is also very low, like 3/64 on bass E, that would be an indicator that the saddle was lowered for a player's taste instead of to compensate for action getting too high from neck collapsing. As a neck starts "going south" the action gets progressively higher and harder to play, that's why a shaved saddle CAN be a "danger sign", and it's easier than the more radical shaving of the bridge.) .
Guild's spec for action height at 12th fret in the;'90's at least was 5.5-6/64 on bass E and 4.5-5/64 on treble, which some people do find to be a little high for their tastes.
But if the saddle's very low like under 1/8" tall AND the action's still too high at 12th fret that's definitely a red flag.

A shaved bridge isn't a disaster but it may and may be prone to cracking. In any case they can be replaced, but with a shaved bridge the instrument's tone and volume are compromised to some degree at least, and chances are the neck will continue to collapse to a point where shaving the bridge and/or saddle no longer restores playability.
 
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