67 Starfire Project

PeteyBass

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
Talkeetna Alaska
Hello everyone, I wanted to give you an update on bringing back the 66 Starfire.

She arrived in overall better condition than I expected. There were muiltpul sand-through areas but the bass was in solid shape.

The headstock had a slight separation in the center. I injected glue into it, clamped it, and it looks great. I'm not sure you would ever know.

As for the finish, I went with a non-stained Watco Danish oil, very similar to a gunstock oil finish. It took about two weeks of applying more than a dozen coats leveled with 2000 grit steel wool. The finish feels very vintage and looks older. It can be as flat or glossy as I like when I get it to the polishing wheel. I can always go over it with nitro laquer later if desired. The frets looks surprisingly in 90% condition and the truss rod is in working order with the neck in the proper postion of an unstringed guitar.

I have the original nut, and the original tuners are in excellent shape. I was able to find an original Hagstrom strap button for the neck position.

Ive ordered a set of Novak DS-BiSonics. I have three Fender style basses with Freds pickups and the idea of having the ability to go between the two tones was very appealing. They will be wired with push-pull volume switches and a phase switch in the old suck switch postion. A three-way switch and matser volume will also be installed. I ordered the wiring harness with the guys at 920D Custom. I have both an original and a reisisue bridge, and of course plenty of saddles.

NEEDED PARTS...
Im still looking for a bridge pickup ring (I may just have to make one) and the copper or brass brad-nail markers. I also need three vintage volume/ tone knobs.

Possibly Forno can help me upload a couple of pics, I seem to lack the skill-set. LOL

Oh, I passed on the blue finish.
 

Happy Face

Justified Ancient of MuMu
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
916
Reaction score
239
Hey, did you say that you need bridge saddles??

I may have a pickup ring to go. I bought it for a reno that's underway as I type. If it is not needed, I will hail you.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
Pic links don't work for me. Google wants me to log in which suggests the sharing settings aren't correct. I'll be glad to help host/post. PM me if we can't get Google to behave.

The index brads can often be found at a hardware store or place that sells supplies for reupholstering furniture.

If you can't find vintage knobs the Newark Street knobs are available from Guild. I suspect only you would know the difference.

To clarify - you got a set of Novak BSDS with the coil tap so you can switch between the vintage Bisonic spec and the Hammond DarkStar spec, correct? I have one in a solid body and still like it, after 18 months :)
 

PeteyBass

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
Talkeetna Alaska
Hap, thanks for the (possible) ring. I have a 66 single pickup Starfire that I can use as a reference, but I would rather just get one.

The upholstery supply is a great idea Frono, I'll look into it, and the non-vintage knobs do look great. As for the pickups, they will be the BSDS's. I'll wire to a pull volume switch for each pickup and have a mini toggle that will put them in and out of phase. It should provide a notable list of options.

I was looking at the Gretsch posting, and I agree the first two photos posted make no sense, and I'm sure are not this bass. Why the person would say so, I have no idea. That brings us back to how does a Starfire with a 66 serial number have factory holes for two pickups? I have looked at every micro inch of this bass, and I'm convinced that the volume, tone, suck switch, blend and toggle holes are factory. As been suggested, it must have been one of the mini Hagstrom bridge pickup combo basses. That the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
img_3498.jpg
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
That brings us back to how does a Starfire with a 66 serial number have factory holes for two pickups?

I have not reviewed the thread so I am probably repeating myself but two things jump out now.

Since Guild made no effort to use serial numbers "in order" and there are examples where a couple of years elapsed between when the serial number was stamped on a neck and the neck was actually used on a guitar, this could be a neck that got stamped, misplaced and was rediscovered and used in '67.

My memory is fuzzy but we have discussed what is believed to be a factory Starfire II that dates prior to 1967. My recollection is that it had two of the non-Bisonic Hagstroms and belonged to a "famous" bassist. I will eventually do my search, but if there was one, there might have been two.
 

PeteyBass

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
Talkeetna Alaska
Frono, thanks for posting the pics!

Eric, I PM'ed you.

I'm guessing the neck serial number was sanded off a long time ago, or are there examples of some 60's necks without them?

I checked my sunburst 66 Starfire and the serial number looks like it was stamped on top of the lacquer finish, and is super hard to read and shallow. That would mean sanding off the number could easily happen in a refin. Especially if they weren't careful and apparently the first attempt was not "careful".
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
Frono, thanks for posting the pics!

Eric, I PM'ed you.

I'm guessing the neck serial number was sanded off a long time ago, or are there examples of some 60's necks without them?

I checked my sunburst 66 Starfire and the serial number looks like it was stamped on top of the lacquer finish, and is super hard to read and shallow. That would mean sanding off the number could easily happen in a refin. Especially if they weren't careful and apparently the first attempt was not "careful".

i have 1970 F-112 the serial number is the same, super shallow and can barely be read at all. In fact I can only see 3 digits of it. I am discussing this guitar with Hans and I owe him some photos.

on Petes bass it looks like there is a suck switch or deep hard switch hole in the top. But no hole should be there at all if 1966 or Bisonc Neck+ Hagstrom mini hum set up. I think it started as a SF-1 from late 67 or after (w suck switch). factory could have added the mini hum later, but prior to leaving factory. it would be the first ive seen like that (bridge mini hum and suck switch together.). of course none of us know what that hole is really from though. which in turn means- it really doesnt matter. it does look factory. the bridge pickup hole is also irrelevant- its there and you are installing a Dark star. the end!

if the holes however are in kind footprints of the hardware that goes in them, they are likely factory, one way or another
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
So... If you asked me to name the folks in the Lovin' Spoonfull I'd get John Sebastian (because he got booked as a solo one or twice a year while I was in college), Zal somebody, because he played a Polara and then I'd look at you blankly. I'm missing Steve Boone, bassist.

Boone had a Starfire II circa 1966 and that was the bass I was thinking of.

SteveBoone_2.jpg


Hans says about it

As far as Steve Boone's bass is concerned, I probably have a little more information. I have early photos ( actually they are very low quality scans that are supposed to be from 1965) of him playing a single pickup (Bi-Sonic near the bridge) bass and also slightly later photos that show him with a double pickup bass with the rare 'small' Hagstrom pickups with big black pickup surrounds to cover up the holes for the earlier pickup(s). The quality of the photos is not good enough to see whether or not it is the same bass that's in the early photos.
When I saw Steve Boone's bass several years ago (when it was offered for sale) it had 2 'Mickey Mouse' bass pickups also with big black pickup surrounds and a Master Volume, and I can only assume it was the same bass. In a letter that came with the instrument Steve Boone wrote that it was the bass he played all through his 'Spoonful' period, so it may have been the same instrument that originally had one Hagstrom Bi-Sonic pickup. However the serial number of the bass dated it to 1966 and since the early photos of him with the single-pickup base were made earlier than that, Steve probably had more than one Starfire Bass during his career.

One previous discussion at http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?169929-Guild-Bass-pickups-before-1971/page2

Hans probable SF I -> SF II conversion for Boone's bass seems to apply to this one as well.

See also

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?141863-Steve-Boone-s-Starfire-bass

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?191813-Steve-Boone-s-Starfire-II
 

PeteyBass

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
Talkeetna Alaska
As Mav accurately points out, none of this matters, LOL!

However, it's so interesting to find a Starfire that seems to break all proverbial rules we have all come to understand. When I get the pickups in it should expose the holes for the thumb rests. My feeling is If there are drill markes for two thumb rests, I think it's a 66, or possibly its was a twin of the Spoonfull bass, or it may have just stat on rack for a year or more and was then completed for shipping.
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
i think it was a factory guinea pig for a long time, 5-6 years or longer, and then still lingered for a wile before it was released into the wild. “we’ll just send it to Alaska when we’re done”
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
i think it was a factory guinea pig for a long time, 5-6 years or longer, and then still lingered for a wile before it was released into the wild. “we’ll just send it to Alaska when we’re done”
Coulda been worse.
Coulda been Texas.
the-blues-brothers-10.jpg
 
Top