Guild Starfire SF4 pickups. Westerly 1985

poa77

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hi all, this is my first post on here but i've been an admirer and player of guilds for years ever since i got a B301A back in the late 80s and i still have an M-85 bass and a beautiful '64 CE100D six string. anyway, i recently also bought a gorgeous 1985/86 westerly starfire SF4 and was instantly amazed by the sound of the pickups so opened it up to have look to see what they were only to find that they’d obviously been replaced with some others by a company called “california pick-up co” which i’d never heard of? wondering what the originals would have been i went to the net and found a reference to the fact that guild did actually use those pickups on some models around the same time (but seemingly not on starfires).

my question is has anyone else come across this and were they changed at the factory or did someone get hold of a pair of the “california" humbuckers and replace them themselves? it's the rough, taped up connections that make me wonder if it was a home done, amateur job but maybe it was a custom order to the factory and they had to do a rush job to get the order out on time perhaps? if the latter, it doesn’t seem to be the quality of work i’ve seen and would expect from guild, though it’s lasted for 30 odd years so did the job i guess? i’ve attached a link to a pic so you can see what i mean. anyway, it's an awesome guitar as is but any insight or tales of similar circumstances gratefully received, oh and if anyone knows what pickups should have been on there originally that'd be interesting to know as well. cheers.


http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad234/poa77/IMG_0592_zpsobdqnher.jpg
 

matsickma

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I was only able to see the back of the pickup so don't know if the bobbins are exposed or not.

Guild used "California" pickups on the S280/281 solidbody guitars and maybe others. They are a imported pickup likely from Asia.

I suspect a previous owner swapped the stock SF SD1 pickups out of a S280/281 and installed them in the Starfire. The California pups typically sound more "bluesy" which may have been the tone desired on the SF. The S280/281 would probably sound pretty good with the SD1's especially when the amp is turned up.
M
 

poa77

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thanks for the reply. ah, yes, exposed black bobbins, sorry.

the thing was they looked like the ones i'd seen on all the similar era starfires which also had open top pickups so it was only when i took them out to see what they were that i was surprised to see they'd actually been changed. it was also only the fact that guild had used these "california" pickups on other guitars at the same time that made me think maybe they did it themselves at the factory and i was wondering if anyone else had the same situation on their guitar?

i would have thought it would have been an expensive way to go for someone to buy an S280 or whatever (unless they were a cheap guitar at the time, i'm not sure what the model is, more research needed) just to swap the pickups over when there were multitudes of excellent after market pickups available at the time (dimarzio, seymour duncan etc) but as you say maybe it was "that" tone they were after, and it certainly caught my ear...........they do sound fantastic (or maybe they already had an S280 as well and just did the swap?)!

i did get back in touch with the person i bought it from to see if they swapped them over but he said he didn't do it but i'm not sure if he was the original owner, though i do know he'd had it since sometime in the (late) 80s.
 

GAD

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Yeah, California pickups were commonly seen on Guilds in the '80s. SD1s would not have been seen on an '85/86 - they didn't show up until the mid-'90s. I'd expect XR7s, though I wouldn't be surprised by Californias. I haven't done the research on '80s Starfires, though, so I'm going off of what I've seen and know from surrounding years.
 

poa77

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after a little more googling i actually found this thread from a while back: http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?192833-Is-this-a-California-Pickup which answers one of my questions as to the plastic tape on the connections. looks exactly the same as mine so must be a factory done thing it seems? for some reason my original pic doesn't show at that link anymore so hopefully here it is again (i'm new to all this forum stuff as you can probably tell)!


http://s939.photobucket.com/user/poa77/media/IMG_0592_zpsobdqnher.jpg
 

matsickma

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Good point made by GAD. Starfire 4's of that era have been known to come stock with open bobbin XR7 pickups and HB1's (not SD1's).
Another not so subtle feature is early 80's Starfires are often seen without a pickguard. Not sure if Guild provided one that was an optional owner install project or not.
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poa77

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hi GAD, and matsickma, thanks for the info. as i am a newbie the moderators weren't adding my replies until now but it's all good to know. in the meantime i did find another thread about these pickups that i mention in the post above. same taped up hookup wiring. anyone else seen this on their 80s guilds? the fact that it's exactly the same with that guitar as well makes me think this was a factory thing. maybe they just had a load of "californias" left in the parts bins and wanted to use them up? (oh, and my original pic link seems to be working fine again!!!). i guess if even just one more person has a pic showing the same type of taped up wires then i can assume it's all stock as it came from the factory?!! as for the optional pickguard my SF4 has no holes for one so has always been without and all the SF4s i've seen in pics didn't have one either so yep, unlesss guild would supply one that you could fit yourself i guess they were guard-less!
 

GAD

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Here's the OP's pic:

IMG_0592_zpsobdqnher.jpg



While I've definitely seen tape in cavities, that does not look factory to me. The factory would have soldered the pickup leads directly to the pot or selector switch (Depending on design) - there would be no reason not to, honestly. I can't imagine any guitar company cutting the leads from a factory pickup that short, either.

Here is the neck pickup from my S281 which is not the best pic for illustrating your question:

5D3_0397_1600.jpg



But here is the control cavity from the same guitar where you can see the braided cable from the same pickup connected to the selector switch:

Guild-S280-Flyer-ControlCavity.jpg
 
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matsickma

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Just noticed the fretboard on that Starfire. It is ebony and not rosewood. I now recall those early 80's Starfires did have ebony fretboards. I always wanted a blond one from that era. Some day!
Nice guitar!
M
 

hansmoust

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.....my question is has anyone else come across this and were they changed at the factory ......

Hello poa77,

Welcome! Yes, I've seen the taped connections before in Starfires from that period. Most of the ones I have on file have serial numbers in the #GA1009xx-range; some slightly lower!

What's the serial number of your Starfire?

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

poa77

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hi GAD, yeah, that was my exact thoughts initially but as i said earlier i then happened upon another thread from this site from 2010 where you'll see that another member, mavuser (to whom apologies if reproducing your pic isn't cool. let me know and i'll remove it straight away) posted a pic of their guitar (which i'm assuming is guild as it's on this forum) with exactly the same taped up connection to their "california" pickup as well, so looks like mine isn't the only one and i'm wondering how many were sent out like that? here's a link to a pic of both his pickup and mine side by side and you can see the exact same tape method?!!!

http://s939.photobucket.com/user/poa77/media/GUILD PICKUPS_zpszx3zqmxv.jpg.

and here's the link to the original thread from 2010 (which actually has a contribution from you as well GAD!):

http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?192833-Is-this-a-California-Pickup

i've seen a lot of people mention hans moust and i do have his book about guild (excellent it is too). would he know about these things do you think? worth dropping him a message?

it does seem curious that it's such a sloppy (though efficient) job but as it seems it's not just on my guitar then......?!!!!!!
 
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poa77

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hello hans, haha, i'd just sent another post wondering if i should try to contact you and then found your reply.

yes, that's spot on with the serial numbers, mine is GA10093*. so stock from the factory like this then it seems, good to know.

btw, yes matsickma it does have a lovely bound ebony fretboard. quite a plain looking instrument cosmetically but it plays great and sounds wonderful. i'm still not sure how to add pics and my links seem to come and go as they please! :) anyone got a simple way to do it? hopefully here's the link to all three pics including one of the guitar itself but to all who answered thanks for your time:

http://s939.photobucket.com/user/poa77/media/IMG_0592_zpsobdqnher.jpg.html
 
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GAD

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Very cool stuff! Hans for the win, as usual. :encouragement:

I too am jealous of your '80s Starfire with the ebony fretboard. I've wanted one forever but they don't pop up often.
 
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