Can your skin harm

dreadnut

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Now that summer is almost here, remember another big no-no is insect repellent! It will melt the finish.
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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This is one of the reasons that I put a John Pearse Arm Guard on my guitar.
The other reason is the better sound that I get with the rest.

The down side is that the adhesive reacts to the finish and softens it.
 

adorshki

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The finish ?
I’m finding that my arm is doing just that so it seems . It’s leaving a dull area and you can feel it some it cleans up but there’s still an area left .

At first I was thinking it was my deodorant but it’s not my arm pit ( I wear a lot of tank tops ) but my forearm just below and just above the elbow . I realized it’s on all my guitars .

It appears on the top edge of the lower bout and the side .

Now I need to fix them or polish them out even the new F55e has been infected . This is something I’ve never noticed or seen before .

I make sure I have no off on me when I play so I’m a tad confused as to what’s causing it . Not sure if it’s just my arm movement but it’s on the side so not much movement there .

Has anyone had this happen or no what it is ?

I'm not even gonna read the rest of this thread before I say "YES!"; it happened to my D25 over a few years.
Sweat contains acids and salts which soften up the NCL if not wiped off right after a session.
I didn't know about that when I got the '25 and first discovered it when doing general clean-up/polish during a string change.
There was an area in the same place as you describe that not only didn't gloss up but was definitely slightly tacky to boot.
The only cure is to rest the finish, allow it to do it's normal aging thing and "harden up" for, in my case, several months.
I concentrated on the D40 during that time, and don't recall exactly how long I left the '25 "out of service" but I think it was in the neighborhood of 9 months with periodic evaluations.
By then it was hardened up but still would not polish up to a full gloss.
Think that was around 9 or ten years ago, and now the damage is almost completely invisible but not 100%, from certain angles you can still make out the area that won't buff up to the same shine as the rest of the top but at least it's not hazy or tacky anymore.
And I wipe 'em all down religiously after playing, now, but the '25 got a lot of play on hot summer weekends outdoors and the moisture from the forearm would be in contact with the top hours, even though I'm not that much of a "perspirator"....
 

adorshki

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Ok got it , I been needing to get some cleaner and polish anyway and I’ll into covering up options . Thanks guys .

DO NOT put anything on it while it's soft!
It could aggravate the problem because the finish is more permeable.
I would give it a minimum of a month to harden up, THEN try the Virtuoso/polishing.
Is this the F55? THAT finish is still so new it might be more susceptible to the problem.
 

adorshki

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I am afraid to practice! LOL

Don't be.
Just keep a COTTON t-shirt square handy.
NOT Microfiber.
The poly fibers are actually harder than NCL.
:friendly_wink:
For me wearing long sleeves was never an option, I move my arm too much while playing and can't abide any binding at the elbow.
NO comments from the peanut gallery, please.
:glee:
 

Rayk

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Hmmm ... why doesn’t the neck not show dulling signs ?
 

adorshki

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Hmmm ... why doesn’t the neck not show dulling signs ?
Some people do mention their necks getting "sticky".
I guess it just has to do with how acidic your sweat is and whether you tend to get "sweaty palms" or fingers, in this case.
I never really had that issue myself.
It also just occurred to me that maybe if it's applied over a very smooth surface like necks tend to be, it develops a more durable finish.
I do get "build-up" on my necks, but only very gradually, and it always cleans off.
 
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Rayk

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Some people do mention their necks getting "sticky".
I guess it just has to do with how acidic your sweat is and whether you tend to get "sweaty palms" or fingers, in this case.
I never really had that issue myself.
It also just occurred to me that maybe if it's applied over a very smooth surface like necks tend to be, it develops a more durable finish.
I do get "build-up" on my necks, but only very gradually, and it always cleans off.

Over a smooth surface ? Neck should be as smooth as the top .

A lot of the NCL smell has gone away .
Can’t say I’ve had a sticky neck if I did I have plenty of sandpaper to remove said stick .
 

adorshki

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Over a smooth surface ? Neck should be as smooth as the top .
Not at all.
Necks are typically much smoother.
Probably because they're not cut at the same as angle as tops are to show the grain.
Or maybe just 'cause they're round.
Top's a veritable topographic model of peaks and valleys in the grain.
Ever seen pics of lacquer shrinking into the grain of spruce top?
All of mine show it to one degree or another, now.
Even the D40 which was glassy smooth when new and which I was sure must have a thicker finish than the Westerlys.
It was so smooth that for a while I thought it might even be poly, and wondered if Fender had gone to poly in Corona.
Look at what the light's showing in the lower right hand corner of this pic:
00028top30.jpg

Here's another:
OM28_grain.JPG


A lot of the NCL smell has gone away
Understand just because the smell's gone doesn't mean it's "stable".
The whole point is that NCL continues to release its solvent elements in a process called outgassing, basically forever, which is why it gets ever more brittle and shrinks over time.
ALSO: It can be re-liquefied with the addition of new solvents, or new NCL. This is why it's so easy to "patch" and to blend new NCL into damaged areas of a finish (with the understanding that the original formulation or something close enough to it is used, to ensure optimum merging of the cured finish and the new finish.
Technically for NCL there is no such thing as "fully cured", but rather, "dry and hard enough to be used".
Here's shot of a repaired finish bubble, apparently caused by too much heat when the owner tried to remove the "popsicle brace" from his OM28v which he purchased in '98 (from here http://www.bryankimsey.com/instruments/om28vr/ ) :
OM28_finish.JPG

Look for it by the end of the 3rd fret up from the soundhole.

Can’t say I’ve had a sticky neck if I did I have plenty of sandpaper to remove said stick .
EEEEEEK!!!!!!!
 
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kostask

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Body sweat will cause, over time, damage to NCL. How much time this will take depends on may things, the most significant being the chemistry of the body sweat. A great way to slow, or even eliminate this is to wipe down the guitar after playing it, with a soft, clean, dry cotton cloth, no polish needed. Another good idea is to wash your hands before playing (this helps the strings and back of the neck more than the top finish).

I have seen the neck finish also be affected by body sweat, although it is not as common as the top edge of the lower bout. I had a Lys L-5 (an old, long out of production guitar brand which evolved into today's Seagull) in which the back of the necj was gooey. A luthier buddy had seen this on other guitars, and sais that it was the NCL reacting with the previous owner's body seat chemistry. I ended up using an old credit card to scraoe off the goo.

Body chemstry can also have a very detrimental effect on strings. Same luthier as above had invited me to spend time at his shop on Saturday afternoons. It was a slow time for him at those times, so I just hung out. One afternoon, one of his other friends shows up, and they started jamming on acoustic guitars. His friend had brought his own acoustic, but needed to restring it. My luthier buddy gave him a set of light Daddarios. In the course of just over an hour, those brand new strings were on their way out. After the friend left, I asked him what had happened. Luthier said that the friend had very acidic body sweat, and the sweat destroyed the strings. The friend had very acidic sweat because he drank a lot of alcohol, and his sweat had become acidic because of it. Luthier told me tht the only strings that his friend could use for any amount od time were Elixers (the only coated strings at the time), most uncoated string lasted a hour and a half or less when he used them.
 
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Rayk

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These things should come with a armpit warning lol or just a no touch or else warning . Lol

Ok so I’m wondering when this thing was made , any decoder up yet for the serial number ?
 

adorshki

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These things should come with a armpit warning lol or just a no touch or else warning . Lol

Ok so I’m wondering when this thing was made , any decoder up yet for the serial number ?

For what, Oxnard?
I think so but too lazy to search right now.
Oh yeah I think Clyde Hightower got the info from 'em when asking about his F55's heelblock s/n plate.
 

Rayk

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For what, Oxnard?
I think so but too lazy to search right now.
Oh yeah I think Clyde Hightower got the info from 'em when asking about his F55's heelblock s/n plate.

Yeah Ox-Nard lol
 

Rayk

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Body sweat will cause, over time, damage to NCL. How much time this will take depends on may things, the most significant being the chemistry of the body sweat. A great way to slow, or even eliminate this is to wipe down the guitar after playing it, with a soft, clean, dry cotton cloth, no polish needed. Another good idea is to wash your hands before playing (this helps the strings and back of the neck more than the top finish).

I have seen the neck finish also be affected by body sweat, although it is not as common as the top edge of the lower bout. I had a Lys L-5 (an old, long out of production guitar brand which evolved into today's Seagull) in which the back of the necj was gooey. A luthier buddy had seen this on other guitars, and sais that it was the NCL reacting with the previous owner's body seat chemistry. I ended up using an old credit card to scraoe off the goo.

Body chemstry can also have a very detrimental effect on strings. Same luthier as above had invited me to spend time at his shop on Saturday afternoons. It was a slow time for him at those times, so I just hung out. One afternoon, one of his other friends shows up, and they started jamming on acoustic guitars. His friend had brought his own acoustic, but needed to restring it. My luthier buddy gave him a set of light Daddarios. In the course of just over an hour, those brand new strings were on their way out. After the friend left, I asked him what had happened. Luthier said that the friend had very acidic body sweat, and the sweat destroyed the strings. The friend had very acidic sweat because he drank a lot of alcohol, and his sweat had become acidic because of it. Luthier told me tht the only strings that his friend could use for any amount od time were Elixers (the only coated strings at the time), most uncoated string lasted a hour and a half or less when he used them.

I don’t normally sweet on my guitars lol but I know what saying .

I see it on my Gloria also and she’s seldom played .
Since I finger pick mostly my arm is fairly stationary.

Maybe it’s my acidic nature coming out lmao .
 

kostask

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Skin oils are pretty have much the same effect as body sweat, for the same reasons. It just takes longer, unless you are talking about strings.
 
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Butch

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I have had that problem with the neck of my F50R ever since I purchased it back in the mid ‘70’s. The finish would get soft and actually rub off.
 

Rayk

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Was scanning around and I see missed some posts here , sorry .

I’m getting paranoid about what I say here lol
But I’m temp this with no direct finger pointing because honestly I have no idea about chemical make up .

So yeah as posted there’s been the tarnishing of skin contact . My F55e cleaned up pretty well except for wee spot since then I have not tried to do better .

My older CV-1 had it also cleaned up about the same as the F55 .

My custom also had it no I bought some Dunlop 65 and though I was one thing when I bought it it turns out that it does have some petroleum in it .

But for what little I had to clean I didn’t see an issue .

On my custom I did ask my Luthier and he just said clean it up with X , I think uses something called pro one .

Anyway I used what I had and it cleaned perfect .

So I guess there are differences between the make up of the NCL . So finding what works best could be a trial and error thing .
 
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