New OM-140CE - Need a saddle

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To say this new guitar has been a problem would be an understatement.

It arrived with a severe back bow, buzzed on all strings, a truss rod adjustment helped but the 'A' string still had issues.
A high 3rd fret and the nut cut too deep on the 'A' string so I filed a new nut to clear that up.

Just 60 days after purchase the top cracked, sitting next to a Martin 000 and a Cordoba fusion the Guild decided to crack on the lower top.
While pulling the strings I noticed the saddle had a big chip out of it in the 'G' String area.

I emailed Guild and got the 'Each saddle is hand made for each instrument', just buy a saddle and have a Luthier carve a new one.
I was just trying to get a part number for a 'B' compensated saddle for an OM-140CE.
The pictures on the Guild site don't match up to what I'm seeing.
 
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It seems that most of the people are not new to guild or their newer products hence no response to the initial thread.
So, I ended up getting in touch with MacNichol Guitars, he has a pre-cut compensated 'B' saddle that with the supplied sandpaper dropped right in, way better fit than the factory saddle.
If your looking for nuts or saddles for most guitars including Guild, google up 'MacNichol Guitars'.
 

Rayk

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Was this a new guitar ?
 
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Yes, brand new. I'm guessing it sat in a warehouse for a bit, like months.
The process was, guitar arrived with all strings buzzing.
The neck was somewhat back bowed.
Loosened the truss rod all the way but the strings weren't enough to pull the neck up.
New Ernie Ball Light Mediums, 12/54 was enough to pull the neck.
More truss rod adjustment to tighten just a bit, still had buzz on the 'A' string at Third fret.
Loosen strings, 3rd fret tapped down, shaved just a hair, didn't rocker anymore.
Still buzzed on 'A' String, now down by the neck joint, adjusted/raised nut slot for 'A' string, buzzing gone.
A month or so later I heard a 'ping' in the next room, thought, that sounded like a string breaking.
Turns out the top cracked. While pulling the strings off I noticed the saddle was chipped badly on the 'G' string.
Strings pulled, re-humidified the whole guitar to get the crack to close, new saddle, top crack is being stabilized as we speak.
A new set of strings and I should have the guitar back sometime this evening.
 

geoguy

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Welcome to LTG, Coleman. And consolations re: your troubles.

I also don't recall seeing your first post until now, but it may have languished a bit in a Moderator's inbox (your first few posts need to be approved by a moderator before they appear).

Like Rayk, I'm curious if you purchased this guitar new. It seems unreasonable for you to have experienced so many issues with a new instrument.
 

merlin6666

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With a cracked top it seems like the saddle is a small issue. They should just replace the guitar under warranty.
 

adorshki

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With a cracked top it seems like the saddle is a small issue. They should just replace the guitar under warranty.
Assuming it was new and purchased from an authorized dealer.
Those were Guild's current warranty eligibility requirements, last I heard.
A cracked top might also be questionable since the most common cause is insufficient humidification.
Those are solid tops and will therefore crack, but I don't know whether the Martin and Cordoba models it was next to are, too.
EDIT: Oops, just realized I posted before reading all, and Coleman confirms "new" but the "authorized dealer" question hasn't been asked, although now moot because he's already undertaken repair on his own dime, I guess.
Welcome Coleman, and my sympathies too.
That's one of, if not THE, worst report we've seen for a new MIC piece.
And Guild's "spare parts order clerks" in Oxnard themselves have demonstrated a lack of intimate knowledge about the differences between the imported product and the domestic built product***,
so I think the info that all the saddles are hand carved for each instrument probably applies to domestic instruments only.
I'd be pretty darn surprised if they actually did that in the MIC production environment.

Final observation:
Guild specs lights 12-53 for those, and don't know how the rest of the Ball set compares, but "Light Mediums" sounds like they may have some heavier gauges in the mix than the Guild spec, like D'A's "bluegrass" sets.

***Example: Guild/Oxnard sent a replacement bridge that didn't fit to an F150 owner, twice.
(Different problem on each one)
 
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Rayk

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Al I would think the saddle which is trivial to me would be considered routine maintenance item.

The crack on the other hand is a manufactures defect / construction or possibly a impropery cared for as you mentioned humidity issue by either dealer or manufacturer . This issue should be warrantied .

If the it was registered done on time . I’m not sure if warranties are transferable ? Never thought to look into that .

We still don’t have all the info in the right order to be of better help fo Coleman until we get it .

Even though it’s a solid top I’m very surprised with a poly finish on it that it cracked why ? Well just never seen it before and I thing it has a stronger bond to the wood the NCL but I can’t prove that . Lol

I’d be interested to see manufactures care instructions on the Westerly collection guitars .

Ha ! There ya go Al I gave ya something to do lol

I’d also love to see pics of the guitar as well :)
 

adorshki

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Al I would think the saddle which is trivial to me would be considered routine maintenance item.
Right, was just answering what he said he was told by Oxnard:
"I emailed Guild and got the 'Each saddle is hand made for each instrument', just buy a saddle and have a Luthier carve a new one".
"OTOH", if it was chipped on arrival I'd be asking for a new one too, if it was supposed to be a new-with-warranty instrument.

The crack on the other hand is a manufactures defect / construction or possibly a impropery cared for as you mentioned humidity issue by either dealer or manufacturer . This issue should be warrantied .
He mentioned he had it a month before it happened.
That's why I said "questionable".
If the it was registered done on time.
Registration was never a condition of warranty, I suspect it was used for marketing purposes more than anything else.
Sure it might help prove your purchase date w-a-a-ay down the road (assuming, for example, Cordoba still owns Guild if you eve need to file for the F55...), but after I registered my D40 I started getting emails from Fender for contests, promotional giveaways, etc. (Didn't have email when I got the other 2).
I’m not sure if warranties are transferable?
Nope, never.
And "Lifetime" means for the life of the company as it existed when you bought it.
All my warranties were underwritten by Fender.
Cordoba only guaranteed to honor warranty on NH built items for original owners.
Anything else is at their discretion, which to be fair they have honored in a couple of exceptional cases I know of.
So in my case I'm assuming I'm SOL unless Cordoba elects to honor the bridge lift warranty on my F65ce.
THAT's a workmanship issue. ***
Assuming I want to entrust them to it, and the guitar to being shipped.
Because last time I checked there were no authorized repair providers who actually did the work in their shop within about 60 miles of me.
Which translates to around an hour and a half minimum of driving around here.
We still don’t have all the info in the right order to be of better help fo Coleman until we get it .
In any case it's still moot because it sounds like he didn't bother to pursue a warranty claim and just proceded to get the repair done.
As far as I can tell from memory (my paperwork's at home with the guitars), their warranty policy is identical to what it was when I got my D25 in '96, outlined on their website:
http://guildguitars.com/warranty-policy/
That system required getting the guitar inspected by a factory authorized service center who then submitted their findings to Fender (or Cordoba), who would then promise to reimburse the service center for repair. Or in the case of MIC product, most likely replacement since it was already discovered by Fender to be cheaper in most cases than actually trying to repair an instrument.
Even though it’s a solid top I’m very surprised with a poly finish on it that it cracked why ? Well just never seen it before and I thing it has a stronger bond to the wood the NCL but I can’t prove that . Lol
Not trying to imply neglect or ignorance on Coleman's part but how's the factory supposed to know he didn't hang it right over a hot air heating duct?
For that matter I don't know how a luthier's supposed to be able to tell, either, I always assumed there would be tell-tale signs of such neglect on inspection.
And I assume the poly's thin enough to have given way when top cracked.
Ha ! There ya go Al I gave ya something to do lol
Yeah, well somebody's gotta do the heavy lifting around here... :tongue-new: :glee:

***Confirmed by their auth. svc. center here in San Jose, when guitar was only about 5 years old.
But they recommended watch and monitor due to potential need for finish touch up as part of process, which had become problematic in CA. (NCL restrictions)
 
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Rayk

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Good reply Al , hate that your having bridge issues . Warranty is a fickle thing for me when it comes to quality of repair .

When I got my Blueridge I found the bridge pins were drilled by a drunken Chinese guy who had yet to master the art of drunken Kung fu .

Blueridges warranty in short , will might fix or we might replace it with the same model if available or one close to it lol

At the time the store I bought if from did have a replacement model but dang the guitar sounded amazing so I opted to have my luthier make a new bridge yeah it cost me but I got better quality Ebony and a job professionally done by someone who does not want it to come back so you know they did it right the first time lol

The costs did not bother me and I never looked back it’s a rocking guitar beautiful tone and I have no designs of selling it .

I highly doubt I would get the same quality of service going the way of warranty.

On the crack , man it happened pretty darn fast . One thing I wonder is Since my Om is on a waiting list I wonder if production is rolled back and these guitars that finally reach dealers are factory fresh .

That should’nt matter normally but if their going through the wood to fast not having enough drying time or whatever you consider a would continue to the issue . Yeah doubtful but never know .

I’m curious I want see where it cracked . :)
 

adorshki

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I highly doubt I would get the same quality of service going the way of warranty.
I would trust the outfit that originally assessed it, based on 50 years of experience with Guilds, but they dropped out of the program.
I gotta admit I don't trust Oxnard yet in this regard, for one thing they don't even make a 16" jumbo body so why should I let mine be a guinea pig even if they do honor it?
And actually it's not as bad as I thought a couple of months back, it's only about a 1/16th-1/8" deep on treble side at back and actually hasn't deepened as much as I thought, like barely a millimeter, in 9 years.
Formally checked it again after doing the 1/2 step down tuning for the last 6 months or so, and humidifying a bit, a couple of weeks ago.
(I made a template tracing of the outline on a piece of 20lb paper slipped under the bridge when I first discovered it, so if I slide it under again I can see if it goes in deeper than the original outline tracing.)

On the crack , man it happened pretty darn fast .
Why I questioned the storage conditions. One would think the other 2 guitars would serve as examples of "properly built", but like I said, if they're actually lam tops, they won't crack.
And I don't know what they have.
One thing I wonder is Since my Om is on a waiting list I wonder if production is rolled back and these guitars that finally reach dealers are factory fresh .
Besides the fact that the crossing takes a minimum of 2 weeks, it wouldn't surprise me if these were held up by all the tariff talk of recent weeks, ie,"Don't ship 'em if they're afraid they might be subject to a tariff by the time they arrive."
Or other related issues like maybe waiting until a whole boatload of products was accumulated that were also being delayed for similar reasons.
Or even just a whole container from GR.
You pay for the whole container in ocean freight whether full or not so you might as well fill it up.
Heck it could even be waiting for CITES documents.

I'll assume they're drying the wood properly since that's such an unusual report, around here, anyway.
 

Rayk

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I would trust the outfit that originally assessed it, based on 50 years of experience with Guilds, but they dropped out of the program.
I gotta admit I don't trust Oxnard yet in this regard, for one thing they don't even make a 16" jumbo body so why should I let mine be a guinea pig even if they do honor it?
And actually it's not as bad as I thought a couple of months back, it's only about a 1/16th-1/8" deep on treble side at back and actually hasn't deepened as much as I thought, like barely a millimeter, in 9 years.
Formally checked it again after doing the 1/2 step down tuning for the last 6 months or so, and humidifying a bit, a couple of weeks ago.
(I made a template tracing of the outline on a piece of 20lb paper slipped under the bridge when I first discovered it, so if I slide it under again I can see if it goes in deeper than the original outline tracing.)


Why I questioned the storage conditions. One would think the other 2 guitars would serve as examples of "properly built", but like I said, if they're actually lam tops, they won't crack.
And I don't know what they have.

Besides the fact that the crossing takes a minimum of 2 weeks, it wouldn't surprise me if these were held up by all the tariff talk of recent weeks, ie,"Don't ship 'em if they're afraid they might be subject to a tariff by the time they arrive."
Or other related issues like maybe waiting until a whole boatload of products was accumulated that were also being delayed for similar reasons.
Or even just a whole container from GR.
You pay for the whole container in ocean freight whether full or not so you might as well fill it up.
Heck it could even be waiting for CITES documents.

I'll assume they're drying the wood properly since that's such an unusual report, around here, anyway.

Yeah all points . I don’t mean to stereo type on the repair side but I can’t help but think warranty work is more like a McDonald’s drive through , Next !

Anyway yeah different ways to look at the shipping . What I can say there’s some other WC’s on back order as well . You also in my case don’t see a lot of Om120’s if one shop has them it’s only a few .

According to Sweetwater initially they under ordered not realizing the demand . So In that aspect it’s good news for Cordoba.
 

Bernie

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Very sorry for what happened with your guitar Coleman.
From the Martin 000 and Cordoba Fusion, seams like you're not a newcomer in the guitar world : if you've got this guitar new, you must have bought it online without a try (otherwise you would have noticed all the buzzes right away).
Did you get a very special discount price for a guitar that was pretty "old" already ?
It would have been better to send back the guitar right away as it obviously was not good enough...
However it seems like the problem is too big for their not handling it : whether it's the seller's fault or Guild's, they must replace the guitar...
I assume the guitar was not stored in a drastic luck of humidity environment, as the other 2 guitars surrounding appear to suggest, and if that is so, the fault can't be yours regarding the top's crack, and definitely not yours either as far as the others issues are concerned...
You should get in touch with the seller first : the guitar is still buzzing, it's got a crack after what 3 to 6 months use maybe : that's enough for you to get their attention...
It would be dreadful publicity for Guild that things should end up like they are !
Good luck (maybe it's not necessary to tell about what you've done already - it only improved the guitar - if this might be used as to cancel warranty's fulfilment ?)
(This being said, I assume you're not someone from some other make, telling lies to bring discredit on our well-respected and enjoyed favorite make) :biggrin-new:

Bernie
P.s. Sorry if i missed something important but I realized when posting, that i've missed page 2 !:neglected:
 

cutrofiano

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Guild Warranty Policy said:
Limitations and Exclusions
The following items are not covered by this warranty:
[...]
Damage [...] or cracks, splitting, [...] of wood due to changes in temperature or humidity, ...

Would have been interesting to see, if they draw this card...

Moritz
 

adorshki

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Yeah all points . I don’t mean to stereo type on the repair side but I can’t help but think warranty work is more like a McDonald’s drive through , Next !
It got that way after Fender did away with the old system in around '11.
Prior to that there were a LOT of Guild dealers who were also authorized service centers and actually legitimate repair shops.
Afterwards it was a crap shot as to whether the outfit Fender directed you to had ever actually even seen a Guild.
There was no actual Factory Service capability in New Hartford, although it looked like it was on the horizon just before it closed.
I'd probably go to Jacobs Guitars (member Fixit, and Gardman works for him too) in Fla if I got really desperate, he's authorized by CMG, actually worked at Guild in '80's, and has unanimous 5 out of 5star feedback here.
I'm just extremely reluctant to ship a guitar.

According to Sweetwater initially they under ordered not realizing the demand . So In that aspect it’s good news for Cordoba.

OK sounds legitimate enough.. :friendly_wink:
 

merlin6666

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There was no actual Factory Service capability in New Hartford, although it looked like it was on the horizon just before it closed.

This is interesting because the New Hartford factory was legendary for their repair and restoration services for U.S.A. Ovation guitars. Ovations that were sent in for repair typically came back better than new, at very affordable prices. Unfortunately after decades of excellent service this department has been scaled down for warranty repairs only just a few weeks ago. I had thought that at the time it also included other brands such as Hamer, Guild, Fender that were built there. But it seems it was not. Does Cordoba follow the Martin model that has a focus on authorized repair depots, or do they have some centralized repair service where you send guitars to?
 
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fronobulax

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There was no actual Factory Service capability in New Hartford, although it looked like it was on the horizon just before it closed.

This is interesting because the New Hartford factory was legendary for their repair and restoration services for U.S.A. Ovation guitars.

I'm not sure I'd agree with adorshki. Originally Guild did not have the resources to both make new instruments and do repair work. It was, however, recognized from the beginning that doing warranty work on New Hartford built instruments was a key part of manufacturing process improvement, so they wanted to have some kind of repair. A few years later they were able to do NH warranty repairs and I think there are a few folks who had work done. Towards the end they were repairing anything with Guild on the headstock. I don't know how much of that was non-New Hartford warranty work and I don't know whether the repair work was "officially" advertised and promoted or whether it was done "by request".

See http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?171654-New-Hartford-Repairs&highlight=Keller which might clarify someone else's memory or prove that mine is shot :)
 

adorshki

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I'm not sure I'd agree with adorshki...See http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?171654-New-Hartford-Repairs&highlight=Keller which might clarify someone else's memory or prove that mine is shot :)

I stand humbly corrected, I HAD forgotten about that.

Does Cordoba follow the Martin model that has a focus on authorized repair depots, or do they have some centralized repair service where you send guitars to?
The last time I looked at their website (hint, hint) they still showed authorized service centers.
Here's the caveat with that:
I know at least one of them does not actually do the work in house and will broker the work.
Your warranty will remain in force because it IS going through authorized channels, but you don't really know who's doing the work or what the quality will be in that situation.
I do seem to recall somebody mentioning that they offered to service a guitar at Oxnard, and I can think of at least one scenario where that might be the most desirable option:
Work that might require NCL re-finish or touch-up, since that's widely available across the country anymore.
 
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