I think my D40C Might be in Trouble

PittPastor

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I haven't played the D40C in awhile -- mainly because I've been playing the Savoy a lot, and because with the heater running, I preferred keeping the D40C in its humicase as much as possible.

But I had it out last night and -- although it sounds great -- I'm noticed some structural changes. I don't know if they happened while it was sitting, or I just didn't notice them before, but the area around the sound hole has definitely changed its shape. I tried to get a picture of it but it is almost something you have to feel, instead of see.

The area right where the neck meets the flattop looks like it has been pushed down a little. The sides mushroom a little up to compensate. And, it seems there is a slight bulge where the pick-guard meets the rosette at the sound hole.

Knowing just a little, I would say the the neck is pulling up/inward and the bracing is holding, but the wood in the soundhole area is giving.

I know this guitar needs a neck reset. My question is: Is it now too late? Is the wood damaged so doing anything major like a neck reset becomes just throwing good money after bad?

E2uiKhS.jpg
 

adorshki

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I know this guitar needs a neck reset. My question is: Is it now too late? Is the wood damaged so doing anything major like a neck reset becomes just throwing good money after bad?
Short answer is "no", it's not too late, but that definitely sounds like the signs of the fretboard pushing in on the top.
Our member GUILDFS4612ce has often mentioned the phenomenon of the heel block shifting forward in this era of Guild construction, caused by those same string tension forces that are pulling bridge and headstock together and collapsing the neck.
The next sign of that is a crack(s) that extend from the edges of the fretboard to the soundhole. (which I don't see yet)
You do want to avoid that if possible although it just means a more expensive repair, not the "death knell". :)friendly_wink:)
I'm guessing it's also possible that the humidification might have been too much. It does in fact change the top radius as the wood expands, and it's one reason a good luthier will always bring a guitar to proper humidfification before doing any work.
Your mention of "mushrooming" brought that to mind.
Could also be a sign of a loose cross brace at the end of the fretboard or that could be another consequence of the top expanding after so many years of being in a certain geometry.
(Edit: oops, forgot, it's a cutaway so that brace isn't there but it raises another question about what might or might not be supporting the top and heelblock there)
Wood does take on a kind of memory after so many years of the fibers drying out in a certain shape, so the proper repair should bring it back to where it was at the very least, and the long-needed reset might turn out to have the silver lining of giving you a level of satisfaction you forgot you ever had, or better.
SO: advice at the moment is to at the very least reduce the string tension a whole step or 2 then get it over to your favorite luthier for a real appraisal.
 
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gjmalcyon

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I'm guessing it's also possible that the humidification might have been too much. It does in fact change the top radius as the wood expands, and it's one reason a good luthier will always bring a guitar to proper humidfification before doing any work.

If you want to check your case humidity levels, this hygrometer is pretty accurate. Bought one for my main cigar humidor, and have used it inside a guitar case to check that as well.
 

GuildFS4612CE

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You said you're already aware that it needs a neck reset...the natural progression is the neck block has started to shift...the stress is causing the deformation of the adjacent areas...it will pull forward and cause the typical cracks in due time...what may or may not have come loose inside is something luthier can address during a reset...it can be fixed...if you like the guitar and can afford a reset, now is the time to do it before further damage...and, yes, guitars with cutaways can have more deformation when the block shifts...two kinds of old acoustic guitars...one's that have had a reset, one's that need a reset...yours needs one...good luck, whatever you decide.
 
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PittPastor

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Well, I have tuned it down to release pressure. I'm not sure yet where I will take it. Stuart Day moved to New Galilee, PA -- which is about an hour and a half from me. Not impossible distance, but not as close as he was. The real problem is that his website says:
"Stuart will not be completing any new repair work beyond basic set ups until his new shop on the farm is complete sometime towards the end of April"

And, although we're past the end of April, I know how construction goes and the fact that his website still says this seems to indicate that he is still in a "no new repair" mode.

Someone on this site told me they recommend Manella Guitars. Those guys are about 30 minutes closer than Stuart. Their website is sparse but they show some repaired guitar work and it looks impressive. IDK. I think all in all, I'd trust Stuart more only because I know him, he is a classically trained Luthier, and he builds acoustic guitars for a living.

So, I'm emailing Stuart to ask him how the shop is coming, and I guess I'll take it from there. Maybe I'd be better off shipping it to someone who is more of a Guild specialist at this point. I've heard bad things about Guild neck resets...

Thanks for the input guys!
 

PittPastor

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You said you're already aware that it needs a neck reset...

Yes, but I think it was actually made this way. I don't think the neck reset is a normal thing due to age. Long story, but the bridge is cut really low, and I have never had anyone reduce it. So, as far as I can tell, it came this way. (I suspect I was sold "B" stock. But I was young, stupid, and just had to have a Guild...) This is the way the bridge has always been as far as I know:

Hqg5nI9.png


The action on this guitar has always been low. I thought that was just the sign of a good guitar. This is the first good guitar I ever owned. I have got to the point that any other guitar's action feels too high to me. I'm the original owner of this, and have had it for 36 years... so... we know each other pretty well by this point.

I'm guessing it's also possible that the humidification might have been too much. It does in fact change the top radius as the wood expands, and it's one reason a good luthier will always bring a guitar to proper humidification before doing any work.
Your mention of "mushrooming" brought that to mind.

I think you are right on this one. I don't think its coincidence that it happened after I stored it in the humicase. Originally, I even kept the Oasis soundhole humidifier in it as well, but when I checked the humidity level after the first week it was really high. Like 65% I think. So I took it out and just left the humicase sponge. But I wonder if that case holds humidity a lot better than I thought and it ended up being too high for awhile. IDK, because my meter is part of the Oasis system, so when I removed it, I also removed my meter. It would be nice if the humicase had one built in, but it doesn't.
 
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PTC Bernie

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......... But I wonder if that case holds humidity a lot better than I thought and it ended up being too high for awhile........

I've been using wireless temp/RH sensors in my cases for a few years now and have definitely seen this.

My theory is that the foam in the case holds/releases moisture very slowly and lags way behind seasonal changes.

I didn't play one of my guitars much last winter and didn't have to replenish the water beads all winter.

Sometimes I wonder if we are too worried about RH, other times I see great examples of damage from not paying close attention.
 

adorshki

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Yes, but I think it was actually made this way. I don't think the neck reset is a normal thing due to age. Long story, but the bridge is cut really low, and I have never had anyone reduce it. So, as far as I can tell, it came this way. (I suspect I was sold "B" stock. But I was young, stupid, and just had to have a Guild...) This is the way the bridge has always been as far as I know:
I know you were replying to Jane and I don't think she was aware of the "backstory" there although I remembered it.
Don't forget though, even if it was set with a very shallow angle it's still susceptible to the tension which collapses the neck into the top.
Remember Frank Ford's alignment check?
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html
(or maybe we never mentioned it because the guitar was at your luthier?
Which, btw, I totally agree with using the guy you trust for something as significant as a reset):
Who knows you might just ease your mind with that do-it-yourself check.
(which should also be done when guitar's properly humidified)
:friendly_wink:
 
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