Should I refinish the top on 73 D55?

Rooftop

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Hey,
So I have a 73 D55 that is in rough shape in regards to the finish on the top, meaning it is basically gone and the wood is getting a bit thin in a few places.

I am wondering if I should refinish it, and if so, who I should take it to. I am not talking about completely stripping it down and redoing it, more of just applying a finish so that it will be sealed. Anyone know anyone who would do it justice?

I am in Portland, but travel to Seattle several times a week, so anyone within the PNW would work.

Any recommendations? Opinions? Anything helps!

(This is the same guitar I made a thread about a while ago, thank you all once again for all the info that was shared there.)

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Westerly Wood

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I would not refinish the top. It has such mojo. I bet it sounds fantastic.
 

AcornHouse

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I wouldn't. Aside from any mojo thoughts, refinishing will involve sanding down all the old finish off, trying to work around the bridge and fingerboard, etc. The top's thickness will be changed, maybe not for the better, and the lacquer that is put on won't be the same as the rest of the guitar. And new finish takes a long time to completely cure, so will be "soft" for the near future.

Just as a nose, face, etc. job alters someone's appearance in a vain attempt to look young, it usually ends up making them look completely unnatural. Same thing for instruments.
 

Westerly Wood

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Just as a nose, face, etc. job alters someone's appearance in a vain attempt to look young, it usually ends up making them look completely unnatural. Same thing for instruments.

brilliant.
 

Rooftop

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Thank you for the advice.

My intent is not to make it look young, I love the way it looks and the way it sounds. I would not want it to be “restored”, just resealed.

I am curious as to the dangers of leaving it with most the finish worn off. Is it more at risk for cracking or warping? I try to take care of it, but also travel with it from time to time.

I just want my cake and to eat it.... you know?
 
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Westerly Wood

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Thank you for the advice.

My intent is not to make it look young, I love the way it looks and the way it sounds. I would not want it to be “restored”, just resealed.

I am curious as to the dangers of leaving it with most the finish worn off. Is it more at risk for cracking or warping? I try to take care of it, but also travel with it from time to time.

I just want my cake and to eat it.... you know?

i think that D55 top is pretty locked in at 45 years of age, i cannot imagine it being any more vulnerable to cracking as it is so seasoned.
i wish my Guild dread top looked like yours.
i would just let it play and be as it is.
 

bobouz

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Personally, I would leave it alone. The probability is higher that you'll end up doing more harm than good to the tone by having it refinished. Also, it will most likely retain a higher value in it's natural condition. Refinishing almost always reduces the value of a vintage piece.

I also totally agree that after all these years, the guitar is stable & refinishing would be minimally beneficial in that respect. Just be reasonable about the weather conditions you subject it to, and avoid quick or extreme changes. Guitars like to be comfortable, just like people!
 
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Kitarkus

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Nope...it looks absolutely stellar as it is. I can't think of a single reason to refinish it and I can think of several reasons not to.
 

adorshki

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Thank you for the advice.

My intent is not to make it look young, I love the way it looks and the way it sounds. I would not want it to be “restored”, just resealed.
I get that, and actually I kind of agree.
I think this is a good candidate for "It's your guitar, do what you want", and protecting the wood could be a good idea long-term.
Spraying over existing NCL is entirely possible as NCL is its own solvent.
It won't be "brand-new pretty" but it's not unheard of and eliminates the risk of over-thinning the top.
BUT: I do recall one of our members (was it F312?) describing a "problem" that developed on his Martin that was actually re-sprayed by Martin itself after somebody over-aggressively polished it.
It sounded like the new finish didn't really bond well with the old and an unusual type of 'crackling' was developing after some years. If cosmetics are the least of your worries, that's probably not a big concern.
I'd focus primarily on finding somebody who can and is willing to do the job.
It wouldn't surprise me if spraying of NCL in WA is now subject to similar restrictions as in CA, due to its health hazards and environmental impact.
I'm sure local repair shops will have info about that.
I think that D55 top is pretty locked in at 45 years of age,.

Wood I'm not sure if you mean wood that old is impervious to humidity variations, but, wood never loses its hygroscopic nature, it'll expand and contract with humidity variation just like any other and maybe even more so without one side being sealed.
Which is one of the reasons I'm sympathetic to sealing it.
Also, it'll add some protection against something like oil somehow getting on there by freak accident and soaking in and muffling the top.
:friendly_wink:
 
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chazmo

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I wouldn't refinish that top either. Unless the aesthetics *really* bother you, a thinner, dry finish is gonna' sound better than a fresh one. I would really only consider a refinish when a top has to be rebuilt due to cracks, big gouges, missing pieces/holes, whatever... This top is just well-used and looks to be in really good shape to me, stains notwithstanding.

However, first of all, just to be clear, I think NCL can be stripped with acetone, can't it? Obviously, you don't want to sand it down. Chris, I wasn't sure about that, but wanted to suggest that if that works you could remove the old finish on a guitar without sanding. AGain, I'm not suggesting that here, just discussing in general.

Secondly, I think you have a valid concern about where the finish has worn off and you have bare wood. What to do? Should you protect it? Can some clear lacquer be applied to the guitar to protect the bare wood? I think I remember the tech doing that for Willie Nelson's guitar, Trigger. (of course, the holes remain. :) ) I don't have answers for that, but perhaps some of the guys here do. I think I would want to protect the bare areas somehow.
 

dreadnut

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I'd leave it alone.

Having said that, are there alternatives to refinishing like maybe an oil that would penetrate and protect the exposed wood and maybe bring back some color? Or is that a bad idea?
 

Rooftop

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Thank you all. I am always so impressed by the number of replies and amount of insight that this community provides.

I am definitely still trying to decide what the right call might be for this old dog. I do want to protect it so it will be around long after I am gone. But I do not want to take away any mojo or harm it.
 

AcornHouse

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I'd leave it alone.

Having said that, are there alternatives to refinishing like maybe an oil that would penetrate and protect the exposed wood and maybe bring back some color? Or is that a bad idea?
Definitely a bad idea. One of the things that happens as wood ages, is that the resins dry and crystallize, possibly giving the reason why old guitars sound better, to many ears. If you apply any penetrative finish, like oil, to a well aged top, thats going to rob some of that dryness and crispness.
 

adorshki

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Thank you all. I am always so impressed by the number of replies and amount of insight that this community provides.

I am definitely still trying to decide what the right call might be for this old dog. I do want to protect it so it will be around long after I am gone. But I do not want to take away any mojo or harm it.
As Chris (Acornhouse) confirmed (and I give him %100 credibility because he's a builder himself), contamination with some things like oils*** can muffle that tone mojo, and sealing's the best preventive measure.
Why I still believe a simple overspray might be the best solution.
I think trying to clear off old finish with a acetone would leave an undesirable gummy residue, and you're not thinking "restoration grade" which would require the sanding he mentioned.
Heck, not too long ago StewMac was still offering sprayable NCL in cans if worst comes to worst, and would bet they probably still offer it..
Pretty sure they'll know if there's local restriction on shipping like there is here in CA, but one way or another it can get done.
If you wound up wanting to try it yourself I'm sure there's some on-line tutorial, but personally I'd just try to be sure top was free of contaminants by cleaning with Naptha.
That should evaporate out enough after a period of time so that lacquer spray should be able to adhere to any bare wood.
That's another reason I'd steer clear of acetone, I think it may leave residue that would interfere with that.
I could be wrong about the naptha, but those are the kinds of issues I'd be researching if I was contemplating doing it myself.
Heck it might even be kind of rewarding working on the new finish to try to bring up some gloss., or simple pride of having done it yourself.
"IIRC" in regular production it's accomplished in several layers, but you've got the option to "stop when you want".
Kinda liberating, huh?
:friendly_wink:

***(and silicones contained in polishes, those are deal stoppers, period. NCL will never stay bonded to silicone contaminated wood, it'll break loose sooner or later)
 

Grassdog

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Personally, I think that old Westerly girl looks stunning just as she is. I can only imagine the sound you get out of that thing. I'd probably just keep her properly humidified at all times and not mess with it. If you do end up applying some sort of protection to the bare wood I would go very easy on that and maybe just hit the spots around the edges of the soundhole
 

kostask

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I would have the finish touched up to seal the wood. I don't know what the situation is in the US, but repair shops here are still spraying NCL (using Preval sprayers for smaller jobs like this, most of the time). Being NCL, it should bond/amalgamate wit the old NCL just fine. Whoever is doing the work will need to be careful to match/tone the new NCL so that the new NCL is the same colour as the old.

I personally don't like to have bare wood exposed on the top side of the guitar. One of the reasons that guitars are finished in the first place is to keep stains/dirt/skin oils etc. from sticking to the bare wood. That is exactly what will happen to the bare wood of this guitar if the wood remains exposed. I am extremely doubtful that there will be any tonal change.

I did have a guitar with a similar finish damage (yes, I had it touched up). I often wonder how this happens. I can understand somewhat if somebody was playing with metal fingerpicks (normally used with banjos), but even then, how did the tear up the finish on the soundho;e wood just above the pick guard? They would have had to reach under or betweenthe strings to do that. the damage in the top shoulder and after pickguard on the lower bout seems to indicate a wildly flaying flatpicker, though.
 
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Rayk

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Some manufacturers are that a distressed finish and charge for that look !

If you have worries of something happing to the bare wood you could have it coated over as is ....
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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Will using guitar polish help seal it?
I would also say no to a refinish.

As far as the wood being bare, isn't the inside of the guitar all bare wood?
 

adorshki

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Will using guitar polish help seal it?
NONNNO!!!
Especially if it's got silicones.
Even the "petroleum distillates" could contaminate the wood causing poor lacquer bonding.
As far as the wood being bare, isn't the inside of the guitar all bare wood?
Yes but you're not likely to spill something on the top inside the guitar unless you try really hard.
The real purpose of a finish has always been to protect the top from contaminants.
Beautification was secondary.
 

adorshki

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I personally don't like to have bare wood exposed on the top side of the guitar. One of the reasons that guitars are finished in the first place is to keep stains/dirt/skin oils etc. from sticking to the bare wood. That is exactly what will happen to the bare wood of this guitar if the wood remains exposed. I am extremely doubtful that there will be any tonal change.

Agreed. That's only going to be an affected by how thick the touchup or overspray is.
Since it's done a layer at a time in several coats, that's pretty easy to control to keep it thin.
 
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