Is a little belly bulge normal and does it add to the tone?

ClydeTower

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I'm looking at a 2009 F50, when asked, the seller says it has a little belly bulge and says its normal and adds to the tone.

Never heard about belly bulge adding to the tone. So is "a little bulge" normal on a 9 year old guitar, or is it a sign there could be other issues?

Thx

Claude
 
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Tico

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When I bought my D-55 in 1977 my waist size was only 28.
Now, 41 years later, my waist is coincidentally size 41 ... so I DO have belly bulge.

Today my D-55 sounds better than when I wore size 28 pants.

Wouldn't you say that's irrefutable scientific proof that belly bulge does improve tone? :biggrin-new:
 
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Rayk

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I'm looking at a 2009 F50, when asked, the seller says it has a little belly bulge and says its normal and adds to the tone.

Never herd about belly bulge adding to the tone. So is "a little bulge" normal on a 9 year old guitar, or is it a sign there could be other issues?

Thx

Claude

Pics would help.
I’m not sure on guild specs but many guitars are made with a radiused top and some folks get that confused with bellying.
 

walrus

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When I bought my D-55 in 1977 my waist size was only 28.
Now, 41 years later, my waist is coincidentally size 41 ... so I DO have belly bulge.

Today my D-55 sounds better than when I wore size 28 pants.

Wouldn't you say that's irrefutable scientific proof that belly bulge does improve tone? :biggrin-new:

LMAO! So true! :encouragement:

walrus
 

ClydeTower

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Doing a little research, it seems a little belly bulge can be a good thing. This article from Dana Bourgeois/Acoustic Magazine concurs: https://bourgeoisguitars.net/our-news/belly/

I checked my own guitars and they all have some bulge to some degree. I measured the bulge on my 2017 SJ200 by placing a straight ruler across the lower bout, right behind the bridge. I measured the gap between the edge of the bout and the ruler (which is 8.5 inches from the center of the bridge) and I get close to 1/8''.

So, if a little belly bulge is "normal", how much of it is considered normal and at what point does it mean there might be structural issues going on? And since each guitar and builder has its own bracing pattern, I would imagine that some will show more "normal" bulge than others.

Anybody else have experience with this?
 

twocorgis

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Doing a little research, it seems a little belly bulge can be a good thing. This article from Dana Bourgeois/Acoustic Magazine concurs: https://bourgeoisguitars.net/our-news/belly/

I checked my own guitars and they all have some bulge to some degree. I measured the bulge on my 2017 SJ200 by placing a straight ruler across the lower bout, right behind the bridge. I measured the gap between the edge of the bout and the ruler (which is 8.5 inches from the center of the bridge) and I get close to 1/8''.

So, if a little belly bulge is "normal", how much of it is considered normal and at what point does it mean there might be structural issues going on? And since each guitar and builder has its own bracing pattern, I would imagine that some will show more "normal" bulge than others.

Anybody else have experience with this?

That's the article I was going to quote. Any guitar built lightly enough to be resonant and sound good is going to develop a little belly over time. My '97 Bourgeois Slope D would be an excellent example, as are several others in the herd.
 

AcornHouse

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It’s a little early for a 9-year old to have a belly bulge. But, don’t be judgmental. In 9 months you’ll have a beautiful bouncing uke which you’ll treasure.
 

chazmo

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Bwahaha! Nice, guys!

As a serious reply, Clyde, a small bulge on a guitar is common and is not a problem. You know, however, that these small changes can affect playability noticeably for some folks who are very sensitive to setup. It's worth noting that when the guitars were assembled they didn't have that bulge; so when the belly happens this is a small shift from how it left the shop. Some setup adjustments may be necessary.

That said, belly can indicate a problem is lurking if it's not stable. In particular, braces will give way when your guitar stays dried out for too long, and things can go south pretty quickly after that.

When you look at the belly, also look towards the tail block and see how much cave you're dealing with (usually both happen together). Again, if it's a smidge, you shouldn't worry.

Oh, and as for whether or not this improves tone... I'm laughing a little bit inside. Folks can say whatever they want, but that's a claim I'll bet has no basis in anything but marketing. That's like saying that the dents in my car improve aerodynamics.
 
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ClydeTower

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chazmo

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Clyde, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. That looks great to me. Yeah, might need a setup. My only concern is what looks like some white stuff at the rear of the bass side of the bridge. Is it pulled up, or is that an artifact in the picture?
 

txbumper57

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2009 would be a New Hartford model which by spec would have a 25-30 foot radius on the top wood itself. This sometime leads to the illusion that there is Bellying below the bridge when actually the curvature was built into the guitar itself. I believe the top radius was the same on the jumbo 12 strings as well as the 6 strings. The smart thing to do would be to use a straight edge on your New Hartford F512 and determine how much of a curve there is on that guitar, Then measure the F50 in the same way and compare the differences to find out if it is belying or not. Best of Luck man!

TX
 

txbumper57

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Just looked at the photos and everything looks good to me. Action looks good, saddle height looks good, can't really see any bellying. The white residue around the bridge edge appears to be left over polish to me with no real signs of lifting. Nice maple on the back as well.

TX
 

Westerly Wood

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"Norman Blake, one of my guitar heroes and a connoisseur of fine vintage instruments, once remarked, “…no belly, no tone.” Since overhearing that statement many years ago, I’ve noticed that the correlation between top distortion and truly great vintage tone is… well, let’s just say it’s roughly on par with the reliability of Newton’s Law of Motion— an object in motion will remain in motion."

--dana Bourgeios

I see Clyde already posted earlier, sorry.
 

ClydeTower

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Clyde, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. That looks great to me. Yeah, might need a setup. My only concern is what looks like some white stuff at the rear of the bass side of the bridge. Is it pulled up, or is that an artifact in the picture?

To be clear, I don't see any belly bulge myself in the pics. I asked my usual questions concerning the state of the guitar, including if it had any belly bulge. The seller's response was: "I haven't looked inside to see if the bracing is ok. There's a little belly bulge, but I understand that's normal "no belly, no tone".

So that got me doubting a bit. Still waiting on his response on if there's any lifting in the bridge (doen't seem to be) and neck angle.
 

Westerly Wood

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While my Br has very little belly at all, it is a real straight neck angle and in great shape for its age, the Cruz has a decent belly. and it is built on the pre-way Martins, so no truss rod, which is wicked annoying, even if you live outside of Boston. so there is humidifying the crap out of it or just let it go. sound huge though.

while i understand a Truss rod will not help with bellying, it is nice when trying to give some relief to fix buzzing. that being said, it is set up well enough, and i know one day i will get a neck reset for it, while my wife, who is the player of this Santa Cruz dread does not care enough about it being in perfect shape, it is there when she needs it and is fine.
 
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ClydeTower

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The seller says that he's going to bring it in to his guitar tech to have it checked out and have them go over it and see if it needs any work.

Hmmm... I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Wouldn't you know first hand if your guitar needed "work" and if so, wouldn't you do that before putting it up for sale?

I'll wait and see what the report will be.
 

chazmo

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I don't know, Clyde. I think that's a very reasonable reaction for someone who's trying to sell a guitar and perhaps doesn't know all that much. I sounds to me like he/she is just trying to disclose properly.
 

adorshki

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Oh, and as for whether or not this improves tone... I'm laughing a little bit inside. Folks can say whatever they want, but that's a claim I'll bet has no basis in anything but marketing. That's like saying that the dents in my car improve aerodynamics.

Actually, they might.
Ever wonder why golf balls have dimples?:
"In the early 1900s, it was found that dimpling the ball provided even more control of the ball's trajectory, flight, and spin. David Stanley Froy, James McHardy, and Peter G. Fernie received a patent in 1897 for a ball with indentations;[8] Froy played in the Open in 1900 at the Old Course at St. Andrews with the first prototype.[9] Players were able to put additional backspin on the new wound, dimpled balls when using more lofted clubs, thus inducing the ball to stop more quickly on the green. Manufacturers soon began selling various types of golf balls with various dimple patterns to improve the length, trajectory, spin, and overall "feel" characteristics of the new wound golf balls. Wound, balata-covered golf balls were used into the late twentieth century.[10]"

And if a "little belly" alters the top tension, it might very well affect tone.

I’m not sure on guild specs but many guitars are made with a radiused top and some folks get that confused with bellying.

Well unless they're meant to be "toy throwaways" ALL steel string flattops have a top radius. It helps 'em resist the collapsing pressure of the strings on the top.
 
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