Which Brings Me to the Question of the 'Big 3'

I started the thread about hypothetically only being able to keep one guitar, and I had a couple of posts that brought me to the idea of making this thread.

Outside of Boutiques, it's pretty much agreed that the "Big 3" of the standard mainstream guitars is Taylor, Martin, and Gibson.

I've noticed how some here believe that Guilds can easily compete and maybe the "Big 3" should be changed to the "Big 4".

How many agree and why?

AMENDED:

Hypothetical situation: Blindfolded players being handed a Taylor, Martin, Gibson, and Guild, all same shape, wood combos, setup, and strings. Could Guild compete??

Put the "big four" - all spruce tops and rosewood back and sides - in guitar stands - bring 10 accomplished players in -
one at a time - and set them down in a comfortable chair/stool. Then blindfold them and have them play and rate each guitar. Lots of variables to consider but if all had same setups bet Guild would be in top three 80% of time. I hear Martin D28s, Gibson J45s, and Taylor 700s often. And the only reason I would trade my DV52 for any of those is so I could sell it and buy back my DV52 and have money left--not for a better sound.

Stuball48 said:

Put the "big four" - all spruce tops and rosewood back and sides - in guitar stands - bring 10 accomplished players in -
one at a time - and set them down in a comfortable chair/stool. Then blindfold them and have them play and rate each guitar. Lots of variables to consider but if all had same setups bet Guild would be in top three 80% of time. I hear Martin D28s, Gibson J45s, and Taylor 700s often. And the only reason I would trade my DV52 for any of those is so I could sell it and buy back my DV52 and have money left--not for a better sound.

Click to expand...

Great hypothetical S! Kind of what I was thinking. Have them all with the same woods, same strings, and same setup! That would be an interesting survey for sure!!

Taylor makes some very fine guitars, and they do appear on stage in professuonal settings, but all Taylors kind of have that similar "Taylor tone," and to be honest, I see a lot of live music, and there are seemingly more Alvarez, Washburn, Ovation, even Takamine and Ibanez, and such, out there being played to the masses than Taylors these days- at least from what I have personally seen/heard.

as a neutral observer with no bias (which is not really the case), i'd say overall to the masses the big 2 are Martin and Gibson. Guild would be the "wildcard" in the 3 slot. they are well respected, and always sound amazing. But there are less of them out there, less places to find/test drive one, and put simply...when talking about guitars- less supply ultimately leads to less demand. "I really want a vintage M-20 but can't find a nice one...my tour starts in 9 days..." at some point u move on and buy the Martin, and maybe score the M-20 down the road...

just for the record one of the nicest built and sounding acoustics ive ever played or held was the Talyor cutaway auditorium 800 or 900 something model brand new from around early 2000's, in Sam Ash. I believe it was $2,700 or so even back then. never found another Taylor that was equal to that one

mavuser said:

Taylor makes some very fine guitars, and they do appear on stage in professuonal settings, but all Taylors kind of have that similar "Taylor tone," and to be honest, I see a lot of live music, and there are seemingly more Alvarez, Washburn, Ovation, even Takamine and Ibanez, and such, out there being played to the masses than Taylors these days- at least from what I have personally seen/heard.

as a neutral observer with no bias (which is not really the case), i'd say overall to the masses the big 2 are Martin and Gibson. Guild would be the "wildcard" in the 3 slot. they are well respected, and always sound amazing. But there are less of them out there, less places to find/test drive one, and put simply...when talking about guitars- less supply ultimately leads to less demand. "I really want a vintage M-20 but can't find a nice one...my tour starts in 9 days..." at some point u move on and buy the Martin, and maybe score the M-20 down the road...

just for the record one of the nicest built and sounding acoustics ive ever played or held was the Talyor cutaway auditorium 800 or 900 something model brand new from around early 2000's, in Sam Ash. I believe it was $2,700 or so even back then. never found another Taylor that was equal to that one

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What do you think of the hypothetical above m? Same shape, woods, strings blindfolded players. Could Guild hang?

Stuball48 said:

Put the "big four" - all spruce tops and rosewood back and sides - in guitar stands - bring 10 accomplished players in -
one at a time - and set them down in a comfortable chair/stool. Then blindfold them and have them play and rate each guitar. Lots of variables to consider but if all had same setups bet Guild would be in top three 80% of time. I hear Martin D28s, Gibson J45s, and Taylor 700s often. And the only reason I would trade my DV52 for any of those is so I could sell it and buy back my DV52 and have money left--not for a better sound.

Click to expand...

I think most people here like the fact that Guild has long been considered the underdog or often flies under the radar when people consider purchasing a quality guitar. I think that up until New Hartord, Guild was probably one of the best values out there, however, I think that is changing in the Cordoba era. That being said, although I love my Guilds, I think each builder brings something to the table and has their own sound and feel that you either like or don't. Its very subjective.

Personally, I think diversity is a good thing.

Clyde

I don't agree. Humans aren't wired that way.

In 1968, when I started playing, the acoustic Big Three were Gibson, Martin, and Guild. Taylor came in with a roar, and that was that.

Taylor is to acoustic what Paul Reed Smith is to electric. It's like what the Scion is to the Toyota and U.S. Cellular is to Ma Bell: it fills the "new" niche for people who just associate older brands with fuddy-duddyness.

People tend to like what they know. To me, Taylor (like PRS, Scion, and U.S. Cellular) is just a flashy, unappealing newcomer. But to players who came of age with the newer, aggressively marketed Taylor brand, it's what they know. Newer players know Taylor and respond to its newness. They like 'em because they're not crotchety, cobwebby Gibson, Martin, or Guild.

And as any marketing pro will tell you, people tend to think in Big Threes, not Big Fours. We also think in Seven Sisters and Top Tens. If one is really dominant, like MacDonald's or Coke, people tend to think of the Big One and The Contender - what Clyde calls The Underdog. (And Clyde is right - I really do root for The Underdog! Chances are, you do to. We're in the pro-underdog marketing segment.)

Anyhow, one had to go, and you have to admit, Martin and Gibson are a lot bigger than Guild. No shame in that! And I kind of like it, because it means I can get a lot more guitar for the dollar than if Guild were in the Big Three again.

But maybe most to the point: So what? Who cares whether Guild is in the Big Three or not? I just like the damn things! They sound good, they're fun to play, they're cool looking, and I can afford them. And (like the Bunny Hop) that's what it's all about!

I just amended the thread so those that have already commented, please weigh in again.

Hypothetical situation: Blindfolded players being handed a Taylor, Martin, Gibson, and Guild, all same shape, wood combos, setup, and strings. Could Guild compete??

leehop71 said:

What do you think of the hypothetical above m? Same shape, woods, strings blindfolded players. Could Guild hang?

Click to expand...

of course I think Guild would dominate that competition in most categories, but that is just my personal taste, and you are comparing apples to oranges. i would say any Martin, Gibson, or Guild will get the job done, just depends what job. Guilds are less expensive for sure, but get the job done equally (or better in many cases), if that is your real question- that was always part of their charm. I don't think you will find too many members on this forum who would disagree with that.

Guild comes in at # 4 for several seasons. None of then have anything to due with how the guitars sound.
The moves across America and the changes in ownership have done nothing to help Guild.
People use this against Guild and that lowers resale values.

Marketing for Guild has never been the best. However the current owners are doing a good job so far.
Taylor is King when it comes to Marketing.

With all of the problems that Gibson is going through, Guild may move into #4 by default.

Martin's stability and quality have kept them on top for many years.

I am a big fan of blind testing.
Wish there was more of it.

I will admit to being a bit of a brand snob.
There is a loyalty that I have to Guild and to Martin.
All other guitars have to live up to these standards for me to like them.

My Username is Taylor Martin Guild for good reason.
These are the guitars that all other guitars are judgd against.

I don't think there's any question a Guild would hold it's own in a blindfolded comparison. In my experience, Guild's have always garnered respect from players of the other brands and Guilds certainly have had their fair share of performing artists that play them. Guilds will always have their unique place in the fabric of American guitar history and I view them as intimately connected with Martin and Gibson. You never know what's going to come along and change the landscape. Maybe the next phenom, someone on the level of a Stevie Ray Vaughn comes along and is playing a Guild. Think of where Rickenbacker was before the Beatles showed up. Then again, think of what the world was like before the Beatles showed up.

Judging by the many questions that are asked of me when I have a Guild out of its' case, they seem to be a regarded as a mystery guitar. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Many people here claim that a Taylor has a distinctive sound and that they can pick it out from a crowd. Similarly people claim that Guild has a distinctive sound and often make the criticism that some of the lower priced instruments have "Guild" on the headstock but don't sound like a Guild. If that is true then for anyone who can hear the differences there is no such thing as a Big Four or even a Big Three. It is an apples to oranges comparison.

A lot of the fun I've had with guitars over the past few years has involved lesser known brands & models. I do recognize our human tendency to group things in Big Twos & Threes…and I also enjoy pushing against that. There's some cool stuff out there in the guitar boonies. And lotsa small outfits making great stuff. One thing I've found over & over is that lotsa folks could be playing better made & sounding instruments than they are if they could just get over the names on the headstocks.

-Dave-

I think if Gibson ever left the scene, we'd only be left with the "Big 2": Martin and Taylor. I'm not sure to many people would mention Guild in the same breath as Martin and Taylor when it comes to the big dogs.

Tommy

What makes any of us qualified to say which brand is best--really! Some "expert" will always dispute the number one ranking (with great points) of any product on the market.
Which does your ego allow you to like best? If a group of people say something long enough, they convince themselves and others "it" is best. Will your guitar give you the same repeated sound you want time after time-is it predictable? If so, it is a great guitar for you.

In the past 48 years I've owned a LOT of guitars, some of the Big 3 and probably some from the Little 3.
Right now, I'm extremely comfortable and totally bonded with my F112-6 so to me, it's the BIG ONE! :victorious:

Joe

That's a question and debate with no answer. All I know for sure (at least for sure in my mind) is that Guild offers the player a competitive, high quality instrument that can compete with most and does so at a great price point. My own personal opinion is that Guild gives you the best bang for the buck of any made in the USA manufacturer.

Why the heck would you want to mainstream Guild when you can buy one anytime for so much less than Martin, Taylor or Gibson on the used market?

Anyway, Guild blew it from the get go when they sold them cheaper than a Martin and thus became the poor man's Martin forever. Buy them cheap and be happy.

Gibson makes excellent refrigerators.
Taylor makes excellent barometers.
Martin makes excellent fly fishing reels.
Guild makes excellent guitars.

I should know. My signature is factual.

Big Al has spoken.