Question about D25 - The arch !

Rayk · Mar 24, 2018

Question about the D25 - The arch !

Yeah this might be over asked I’m not sure , I remember you folks saying that Guild never kept great records or many were lost and all .

So on the D25’s I see many with arched backs that folks say are pre 76 which the guild guitar book says is the time arched came into the picture .

I assume some prototypes might of got out earlier ?

I have one person who swears his a 71 bought new as a graduation gift . He say it has the arched back .
So is there a fixed date on the arch introduction?

killdeer43 · Mar 24, 2018

According to the Bible I read "by 1976" as well.

Joe

Rayk · Mar 24, 2018

killdeer43 said:
According to the Bible I read "by 1976" as well.

Joe

The wording creates questions for me “ by 1976 “ would that mean by 76 it was fully implemented ?

Gosh I ask to many questions haha

hansmoust · Mar 24, 2018

Rayk said:
So on the D25’s I see many with arched backs that folks say are pre 76 which the guild guitar book says is the time arched came into the picture .

I assume some prototypes might of got out earlier ?

I have one person who swears his a 71 bought new as a graduation gift . He say it has the arched back .
So is there a fixed date on the arch introduction?

Hello Rayk,

That has been covered in detail many times before. Yes, I have 1976 as the year for the change in my book, but that was published more than 20 years ago.
Soon after the book was published additional research showed that the change to an arched back took place a couple of years earlier and that the first arched back D-25s were done during 1973.

1971 seems too early according to my research, so if your source can give the serial number of his arched back D-25 that he thinks he bought in 1971, I will check that against my records.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Rayk · Mar 24, 2018

hansmoust said:
Hello Rayk,

That has been covered in detail many times before. Yes, I have 1976 as the year for the change in my book, but that was published more than 20 years ago.
Soon after the book was published additional research showed that the change to an arched back took place a couple of years earlier and that the first arched back D-25s were done during 1973.

1971 seems to early according to my research, so if your source can give the serial number of his arched back D-25 that he bought in 1971, I will check that against my records.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Working that number thing as we speak .
Thanks Hans .

killdeer43 · Mar 24, 2018

And there it is...ask the question and Hans delivers. :victorious:

Joe

dreadnut · Mar 24, 2018

Then there's the whole question of arched back hog-topped vs spruce-topped. My '76 is spruce. I think they were all spruce-topped by '76.

Grassdog · Mar 25, 2018

It would be great to hear some stories (from those close to the situation back in the day) as to why they went to all arched back on the beloved D25's in '76. One would assume it's because they got feedback from the musician community that it enhanced the low end response and created a signature element to the tone. Or maybe was it more cost effective?

geoguy · Mar 25, 2018

I think of the arch-back D-25 model as being sort of a happy accident.

It was an entry-level guitar that needed to be economical to manufacture, but it also sounded great . . . better than its price point, imo.

Rayk · Mar 25, 2018

geoguy said:
I think of the arch-back D-25 model as being sort of a happy accident.

It was an entry-level guitar that needed to be economical to manufacture, but it also sounded great . . . better than its price point, imo.

So now you got me curious to know how the two sound compared to each other . Lol

bobouz · Mar 25, 2018

Grassdog said:
It would be great to hear some stories (from those close to the situation back in the day) as to why they went to all arched back on the beloved D25's in '76. One would assume it's because they got feedback from the musician community that it enhanced the low end response and created a signature element to the tone. Or maybe was it more cost effective?

It might have been to get some separation from other existing models (such as the D-35). For whatever reasons, Guild also changed specs on the G-37 at some point during the year of 1976 (mahogany to maple neck & chesterfield headstock), as well as necks on other models (such as the F-40). Oh, and then the F-30R was reintroduced with V-block inlays & G-shield.

1976 was a rather busy year for Westerly!

Bonneville88 · Mar 25, 2018

Hey Ray... not only are flat-back and arch-back 25s totally different... arch-back and arch-back 25s
can sound completely different! Flat-backs will likely also be different
from guitar to guitar.

One of the more unexpected sonic surprises of my recent guitar history was how an all-hog
Corona flat-back D25 completely outperformed an early 70s all-hog flat-back D25... went into
the comparison thinking the opposite would be more likely.

As of today, I'm down to three Westerly arch-back spruce & hog 25s, one Westerly all-hog flat back 25,
one Corona all hog flat-back 25, one Westerly D4 NT spruce & hog, 3 all-hog arch-back Westerly D17s,
and several Westerly 12 string spruce & hog dreads.
Considered a Westerly all-hog D4 that was on ebay recently - uncommon to find an all-hog D4 for sale - but let it go.

A late-model all-hog Ox D20 (perhaps considered a modern answer
to a flat-back all-hog D25) departed recently, and a late model all-("African") hog MIC D120 has stayed and is holding its own,
which I've written about elsewhere on LTG.

That said, my journey through all-hog and some-hog Guild dreads is coming to an end - many if not most of these
will likely be gone by the end of the year, if all goes as planned... going to try to take the complete collection down
to no more than 8 or 10 guitars!

Rayk · Mar 25, 2018

Bonneville88 said:
Hey Ray... not only are flat-back and arch-back 25s totally different... arch-back and arch-back 25s
can sound completely different! Flat-backs will likely also be different
from guitar to guitar.

One of the more unexpected sonic surprises of my recent guitar history was how an all-hog
Corona flat-back D25 completely outperformed an early 70s all-hog flat-back D25... went into
the comparison thinking the opposite would be more likely.

As of today, I'm down to three Westerly arch-back spruce & hog 25s, one Westerly all-hog flat back 25,
one Corona all hog flat-back 25, one Westerly D4 NT spruce & hog, 3 all-hog arch-back Westerly D17s,
and several Westerly 12 string spruce & hog dreads.
Considered a Westerly all-hog D4 that was on ebay recently - uncommon to find an all-hog D4 for sale - but let it go.

A late-model all-hog Ox D20 (perhaps considered a modern answer
to a flat-back all-hog D25) departed recently, and a late model all-("African") hog MIC D120 has stayed and is holding its own,
which I've written about elsewhere on LTG.

That said, my journey through all-hog and some-hog Guild dreads is coming to an end - many if not most of these
will likely be gone by the end of the year, if all goes as planned... going to try to take the complete collection down
to no more than 8 or 10 guitars!

Sell me a flat back all hog !!! Lol

Ok so now I’m confused I thought all hog flat backs were done in and around 74 ish after which they went arch back 76 then added Sitka tops to the mix right ?

But your saying they made a all hog flat back in the 90’s ? Maybe in reading it wrong sorry if so ?

As to the sound I guess my curiosity would strickly to the 70’s one of each just hear ya know I’ve not heard any of them really so it cool to have side by side . It’s one of things lol

Bonneville88 · Mar 25, 2018

Ray,

Corona did a flat-back 25, early 2000s era... mine is same as this one for sale on Reverb,
red is somewhat darker and deeper on mine. Photo is from the current Reverb listing.
Great guitar! Superb fit, finish, sound and playability.
Interesting low gloss satin finish, different than any other sheen I've seen on any Guild thus far.
It's my one and only Corona Guild.

https://reverb.com/item/5285107-guild-d25-usa-corona-2003-cherry

dreadnut · Mar 25, 2018

Well yeah, they were re-issued later in Corona, but I was talking about Westerly Guilds.

When I was in the market ('76) they were offering the arch-back spruce-top D-25's and the flat-back spruce top D-35's. I bought a D-25M and my buddy bought a Tobacco 'burst D-35. We both still have them.

He thinks mine sounds better. :ambivalence: I will say mine has a LOT more play time on it.

Bonneville88 · Mar 25, 2018

Dread, that is amazing you both still have those guitars!

FWIW, nut width on the Westerly flat-back D25 is +/- 1.675", Corona flat-back D25 nut width +/- 1.733"...
I may be over-weighting the added comfort of the slightly but critically wider nut on the Corona.

Rayk · Mar 25, 2018

Bonneville88 said:
Ray,

Corona did a flat-back 25, early 2000s era... mine is same as this one for sale on Reverb,
red is somewhat darker and deeper on mine. Photo is from the current Reverb listing.
Great guitar! Superb fit, finish, sound and playability.
Interesting low gloss satin finish, different than any other sheen I've seen on any Guild thus far.
It's my one and only Corona Guild.

https://reverb.com/item/5285107-guild-d25-usa-corona-2003-cherry

Bummer it’s in France lol are you saying it’s a hog Top as well ?

Bonneville88 · Mar 25, 2018

It is hog top indeed. Production numbers must of been really low on these.

Bonneville88 · Mar 25, 2018

Found the all-hog Westerly D4 that sold on ebay recently.
Also must have been produced in low numbers, this may be the only example I've seen for sale in the past several years.

Not sure why someone stuck a GAD pick guard on it, if I'd have scored this that would've been the first thing to go.
Like so many D4s for sale, plastic heel cap is awol... LOL.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/REDUCED-Gu...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

adorshki · Mar 26, 2018

Rayk said:
Ok so now I’m confused I thought all hog flat backs were done in and around 74 ish after which they went arch back 76 then added Sitka tops to the mix right ?

As Hans mentions they started coming in in '73 although I could swear I've seen reports of '72, but that also assumes the instruments were accurately described.
Of course I'll go with Hans' research.
By far the most common year cited for all-hog archbacks is '73, but we've seen listings for '75's and one member Spider-Man even reports his '76 as an all-hog archback.
Given these reports over the years I'm convinced Guild was actually shipping both spruce and hog-topped archbacks at the same time, primarily in '74, and maybe just because they still had old inventory of all-hog archbacks to sell.

Rayk said:
But your saying they made a all hog flat back in the 90’s ?

NO, but I've seen I think 3 of those all-hog archback D4's.
Corona revived the all-hog flatback formula from '02-'03.
By Spring '04 it had been replaced by the GAD25 in the price list (also all-hog flatback)

Question about D25 - The arch !

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