Taming tinniness on a 1980 F212XL: Strings? Nut?

Gorgar

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Wanted to check with people who have had one of these for a while. Mine's got a plastic nut (which should probably get replaced) and D'Addario phosphor bronze strings on it. The sound is probably 90% where I want it: balanced, crisp, decent but not muddy bass. But, it does sound a bit tinny.

I'd like to back off on the tin a little bit without turning into a different sound entirely. Thoughts?

Note: Most of my other Guild acoustics (D-25 12, F-50R, D-25 6) are tuned to D minor with Martin SP 80/20s, which sound rich and dark and wonderful once broken in. I don't really want to go that route with this one, as the point to this one for me is the more balanced airy sound. Also, I tend to probably play harder than most people, which might be a factor too. I had the guitar set up when I bought it, so I don't think the setup is the problem. It doesn't seem buzzy or anything.
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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Try replacing the octive G string with a second wound .022 G string.
This will make a nice difference.
You may have to open the nut up a bit for the string to fit.
 

Rayk

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what did you put on it gauge wise ? and what did it sound like before ? were they very old strings ? new strings always sound bright play the heck out of them then see what they sound like :)
 

gjmalcyon

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My F-212XL (since gifted to a nephew), sounded like a grand piano in my lap, even with a low saddle and break angle. Your next string change, pull the saddle and make sure the bottom edge is flat, straight, and square, making good contact with the bridge. If not, you can fix it yourself, or have Bob Colosi make you a new one.

He just made a compensated bone saddle and bridge pins for my D6-NT (replacing an uncompensated plastic saddle and plastic pins), and the difference is significant. I sent him the old saddle and pins and he sent me back correctly-sized pins, and a saddle that needed 15 minutes with a little sandpaper to set the thickness.
 

txbumper57

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I would be an advocate for a Bone Nut, Bone Saddle compensated or not, and Bone Bridge pins as mentioned earlier. There really is a significant tonal difference to my ears when those items are replaced. Just an opinion of course.

TX
 

Gorgar

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what did you put on it gauge wise ? and what did it sound like before ? were they very old strings ? new strings always sound bright play the heck out of them then see what they sound like :)

I think they were light or extra light. Never saw the package though; had it restrung when I had it checked over and set up. The old strings were *very* old and it was detuned. Bought it from a flipper who had never played it, but I've seen enough Guilds to know what a solid guitar feels like, and this one felt pretty good to me, so I bought it.

I did bang on it a bit more, and have concluded a couple of things. The octave A string buzzes a bit when played open. Replacing the nut should fix that. One of the E strings also buzzes a bit when played really hard, as I tend to do (and specifically requested the setup to cover...they got it very mostly right, just not quite all the way). It took me a while to figure out exactly what was buzzing. It seems to play pretty cleanly if I don't use any open strings, so I think the nut replacement is mandatory.

It's a non-compensated saddle. I may see about getting a compensated one made, then.

Something else I determined: this string set has wound strings for both low Es. I like the sound of that a lot. Does anyone make a 12-string set where both As are wound as well? I've looked around online but not seen anything.
 

Rich Cohen

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I had a 1994 F-212XL and a NH F-412 at the same time, and I have to say that the F-212XL was brighter sounding than the F-412, which was no slouch by any means in the brightness department. Mine was similar to Gjmalcyon's 'grand piano'; though if I was careful, it could easily accompany me on a soft, tender love ballad as well. At least go with bone nut, saddle and bridge pins as TX suggests.

RC
 

Rayk

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I think they were light or extra light. Never saw the package though; had it restrung when I had it checked over and set up. The old strings were *very* old and it was detuned. Bought it from a flipper who had never played it, but I've seen enough Guilds to know what a solid guitar feels like, and this one felt pretty good to me, so I bought it.

I did bang on it a bit more, and have concluded a couple of things. The octave A string buzzes a bit when played open. Replacing the nut should fix that. One of the E strings also buzzes a bit when played really hard, as I tend to do (and specifically requested the setup to cover...they got it very mostly right, just not quite all the way). It took me a while to figure out exactly what was buzzing. It seems to play pretty cleanly if I don't use any open strings, so I think the nut replacement is mandatory.

It's a non-compensated saddle. I may see about getting a compensated one made, then.

Something else I determined: this string set has wound strings for both low Es. I like the sound of that a lot. Does anyone make a 12-string set where both As are wound as well? I've looked around online but not seen anything.

Ok good info , a nut replacement by itself will not necessarily fix a buzzing string . If your getting a new set up with nut and saddle then your tech or luthier will fix the issue it could also be fret issues .

Something to think about , depending how you play the action height is everything . If you play in standard tuning and have a light hand you can get away with lower action depending on the guitar a heavy hand would call for a bit higher action same if use open tunings .

On wound strings you might try Strinjoy.com you can get custom anything just about from them. 😊
 

Gorgar

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Hope no one minds the thread necromancy, but I finally did get the nut replaced with a bone one, and it fixed every issue. Turns out the two high Es were a little close together. It's now the easiest acoustic I have to play, real low action, but I can bang on it all I want and it still rings true. These guitars are amazing.
 

Brucebubs

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Maybe try a set of GHS Silk & Bronze strings. Unlike the softer feel Silk & Steels out there I found Silk & Bronze sound and feel more like PB's .. only slightly warmer.

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wileypickett

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Most brands (I like D'Addarios and DRs) of Medium Guage 12-string strings have wound E and A octave strings.
 
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