70's F-30 v F-30 Standards during Ren's Tenure

Westerly Wood

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Thanks for all the great information. During my research I found this clip of a '72.



I do like the tone, but there is no fingerpicking in the demo. Comments?

The start of a journey! I'll need to sell one in my inventory first (I have the one in/one out rule). ��
Thanks again for all the help!


great volume and tone coming out of that little box. looks more like an F20 but could just be an optical illusion.
every time i wonder about getting a smaller body Guild, i listen to one and remember I am a dread fan :)

but that is a great clip.
 

adorshki

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My 72 and 73 are the some body style as the one shown in the video; it's a flat back, deep body. At the lower bout, my 72 and 73 both come in at a hair over 4 5/8" deep; my 2011 F-30 Standard comes in at a hair over 4 1/4". It's a very noticeable difference when they are standing next to each other. I also own a 1981 F-30 arched back that is similar to your GF25, except the the more traditional Guild headstock. I have it on loan to a friend; hopefully I'll get it back in one piece someday.

Tommy

Think the difference between your F30 and a GF25's gonna be lower bout diameter.
GF25's were 16", F40 family under a different name.
There were 5 GF models, offered all 3 tone woods and choice of arched or flat back for the hog and maple versions.
Only ever recall one special model of F30 getting a 16" lower bout, an F30R from early '90's IIRC.
Ah, here we go, and in fact it was a "GF" labeled as an F30, but serial numbered as a GF30, a not uncommon issue with Guild during that period between Gruhn and Fender eras:
FROM HERE:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...n-Model-quot&p=1522870&viewfull=1#post1522870 :
"Hans, I guess this one's an early one because though the model number is F30R-NT, the serial number does indeed start with GF30, haha. And yep it's to GF50 specs, which is closer to Clapton than Simon."

F30's never exceeded 15-1/4" lower bout except for that one model from that period of time, I think.
Let's not forget these late '70s beauties either:

Hello Tommy,

Sure! Here's one:

F30Rw_F50trim.jpg


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

From here:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?177158-F30R-with-F50-style-neck-and-deluxe-trimmings
 
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bayoubengal1954

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Hey Tommy (or anyone else in the know)--
Would a '72 F-30 have the 1 5/8" or 1 11/16" nut width? I found one that was described as 1 5/8 and one that was described as "a hair over 1 5/8". Thanks!
 

tommym

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Hey Tommy (or anyone else in the know)--
Would a '72 F-30 have the 1 5/8" or 1 11/16" nut width? I found one that was described as 1 5/8 and one that was described as "a hair over 1 5/8". Thanks!

The necks back then were hand sanded, so it doesn't surprise me that there is some difference in dimensions from guitar to guitar.

41.28 Millimeters = 1 5/8"

42.51 Millimeters = My 1972 F-30 (nut width dimension taken at the top of the fretboard)

42.86 Millimeters = 1 11/16"

Tommy
 

adorshki

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The necks back then were hand sanded, so it doesn't surprise me that there is some difference in dimensions from guitar to guitar.
That's true but I don't think it was to the extent that fretboards that were 1-11/16" wide got narrowed down to 1-5/8". Both of those were "standard spec" on different fretboard widths and lengths.
Suspect yours is a tiny bit narrow due to the individual final shaping by hand.
This accounts more for variations in neck profile between any 2 guitars even though they had target templates.
The message for our OP is that no two necks from Westerly were absolutely identical unless "by accident."
It sounds like the 1-5/8" necks you mention, Bengal, are on 24-3/4" scale ("shortscale") necks, that wasn't an unusual combination for them at the time. (can't remember what scale has been cited for that year but Tommy should be able to confirm. Long scales on F30's numerically are the exception rather than the rule, but I think they went back and forth twice over their entire history.. I think that '78 below with the F50-style fretboard was the first time they went longscale [in '76]. Sorry I'm just fuzzy on specific stop/start dates)
Or as previously mentioned, we've seen evidence that Guild would simply build a "batch"' (term used loosely here but possibly true in the technical sense) of guitars with an "off-spec" nut.
We know they did this on an actual "run" of D40's in '64, they got 1-3/4" nuts and flat-radius fretboards when the spec was for 1-11/16" and a shorter (rounder) board radius.
Another recent example was with the G37's previously mentioned, 2 guitars (with s/ns within like 10 digits of each other from '86 or '87) from different owners reporting 1-5/8" nuts seems to imply they did a run of those with narrower nuts, when spec was 1-11/16" on those as well.
Generically the 25-1/2 scale with 1-11/16" nut seemed to be the most common for all flattops overall, and 1-5/8" was more common on shortscale instruments, which tended to be the F- and M20's and F30's.
And finally, just when you think you've seen everything, along comes an oddball you're convinced can't be factory original until Hans comes along and says it is.....:glee:
 
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adorshki

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So of all these variations, what's the final verdict ... which is the ultimately best F30 ever?
The one you decide to keep.
Which is why I now consider all this willy-nilly changing up of specs to be sublime wisdom on Guild's part.
If you keep looking long enough you'll probably find the perfect one.
:friendly_wink:
 

Rayk

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The one you decide to keep.
Which is why I now consider all this willy-nilly changing up of specs to be sublime wisdom on Guild's part.
If you keep looking long enough you'll probably find the perfect one.
:friendly_wink:

Well said 🙂
 

bayoubengal1954

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That's true but I don't think it was to the extent that fretboards that were 1-11/16" wide got narrowed down to 1-5/8". Both of those were "standard spec" on different fretboard widths and lengths.
Suspect yours is a tiny bit narrow due to the individual final shaping by hand.
This accounts more for variations in neck profile between any 2 guitars even though they had target templates.
The message for our OP is that no two necks from Westerly were absolutely identical unless "by accident."
It sounds like the 1-5/8" necks you mention, Bengal, are on 24-3/4" scale ("shortscale") necks, that wasn't an unusual combination for them at the time. (can't remember what scale has been cited for that year but Tommy should be able to confirm. Long scales on F30's numerically are the exception rather than the rule, but I think they went back and forth twice over their entire history.. I think that '78 below with the F50-style fretboard was the first time they went longscale [in '76]. Sorry I'm just fuzzy on specific stop/start dates)
Or as previously mentioned, we've seen evidence that Guild would simply build a "batch"' (term used loosely here but possibly true in the technical sense) of guitars with an "off-spec" nut.
We know they did this on an actual "run" of D40's in '64, they got 1-3/4" nuts and flat-radius fretboards when the spec was for 1-11/16" and a shorter (rounder) board radius.
Another recent example was with the G37's previously mentioned, 2 guitars (with s/ns within like 10 digits of each other from '86 or '87) from different owners reporting 1-5/8" nuts seems to imply they did a run of those with narrower nuts, when spec was 1-11/16" on those as well.
Generically the 25-1/2 scale with 1-11/16" nut seemed to be the most common for all flattops overall, and 1-5/8" was more common on shortscale instruments, which tended to be the F- and M20's and F30's.
And finally, just when you think you've seen everything, along comes an oddball you're convinced can't be factory original until Hans comes along and says it is.....:glee:

To further confuse the issue, the seller measured the '72 guitar in the video and came up with 1 5/8". I'm also a Gibson Guy so I understand inconsistency. :biggrin-new: I'm betting he is not as precise as Tommy and it could be in the "Hair over 1 5/8" category". Too bad I can't play it in person. I have a feeling it will feel too cramped for me when fingerpicking. I need some wiggle room to forgive my bad technique.

The Standard may be my best bet.
 

tommym

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......The Standard may be my best bet.

I just noticed the signature at the bottom of your posts.....based on that, I'm thinking your best bet is probably a Martin OM? The Guild F-30 Standard pops up for sale every now and then, but Martin OM's come in every conceivable combination under the sun.


Tommy
 

bayoubengal1954

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I just noticed the signature at the bottom of your posts.....based on that, I'm thinking your best bet is probably a Martin OM? The Guild F-30 Standard pops up for sale every now and then, but Martin OM's come in every conceivable combination under the sun.


Tommy

Tommy, I'm in the Market for a Guild. Two Martins is enough. 😁 There is actually a 2012 Standard for sale on reverb, but I've got to move something out first. If someone wants to jump on it, no hard feelings!

I can be patient.
 

Rayk

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Tommy, I'm in the Market for a Guild. Two Martins is enough. 😁 There is actually a 2012 Standard for sale on reverb, but I've got to move something out first. If someone wants to jump on it, no hard feelings!

I can be patient.

I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with a NH F30 at all .

The hog model sounds amazing but always a possibility there’s a one off , that said beautifully dry and woody with wonderful overtones yup overtones lol

I unfortunately had to return my purchase do to some undisclosed issues . But the sound man ! I can’t stop thinking about it !

Don’t wait to long . There’s one cut away on there with a little chip on the back . I’m pretty sure he’ll deal unless the cut a way brothers you .

My returned guitar showed back up on reverb with no issues listed . 😠
 

bobouz

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I like that F-30 cutaway standard, but just can't handle the 1-3/4" nut, darn it.

BB - If you might be interested in a nice CJ-165 Rosewood, let me know. I've communicated with the seller & was pretty serious about it, but again, the nut is 1-3/4", so I passed. The CJ-165 body is a rather close match to my '73 F-30R, which is what initially peeked my interest.
 

bayoubengal1954

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I like that F-30 cutaway standard, but just can't handle the 1-3/4" nut, darn it.

BB - If you might be interested in a nice CJ-165 Rosewood, let me know. I've communicated with the seller & was pretty serious about it, but again, the nut is 1-3/4", so I passed. The CJ-165 body is a rather close match to my '73 F-30R, which is what initially peeked my interest.

Thanks for the tip, bobouz! I'm really jonesing for a spruce/mahogany Guild instead of a Gibson or Martin. I see what you mean about the body size of that Gibson model being close to a 70's F-30!

I love the body depth of the early 70's F-30s, but most of them that purport to have 1 11/16" nuts are really closer to 1 5/8". We all like what we like. 😀
 
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