70's F-30 v F-30 Standards during Ren's Tenure

bayoubengal1954

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Thanks for the welcome on this Forum!
Now some questions.
I've heard good things about the 70's Guilds. Some have said that the builds are a bit heavy, whereas when Ren was briefly in charge he issued the F-30 Standard with a lighter build, 1 3/4" nut and adi braces. I believe the 70's F-30s have 1 11/16" nuts, correct?
Also, I've heard that the body dimensions of the 70's F-30s are slightly different than the F-30s under Ren.

I have seen some videos and the Standards seem to have bit more of a lush sound than some of the 70's models (I find those sound a bit more direct and fundamental, which tends to be my preference). I know listening online does not compare to personal experience (only my ears can tell, etc.) but I would appreciate any
thoughts on this.
 

fronobulax

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Thanks for the welcome on this Forum!
Now some questions.
I've heard good things about the 70's Guilds. Some have said that the builds are a bit heavy, whereas when Ren was briefly in charge he issued the F-30 Standard with a lighter build, 1 3/4" nut and adi braces. I believe the 70's F-30s have 1 11/16" nuts, correct?
Also, I've heard that the body dimensions of the 70's F-30s are slightly different than the F-30s under Ren.

I have seen some videos and the Standards seem to have bit more of a lush sound than some of the 70's models (I find those sound a bit more direct and fundamental, which tends to be my preference). I know listening online does not compare to personal experience (only my ears can tell, etc.) but I would appreciate any
thoughts on this.

Minot nit. Ren was not at New Hartford for its entire time of operation. My recollection is that the Standard and Traditional Series' were in production before he arrived and he had little impact on the design or specs or production. I'd go out on a limb and say the 60th Anniversary was the first F-30 that Ren had anything to do with and it is essentially a bling-ed out F-30 Traditional in Koa. Ren did come up with the diamond, for sure.

The F-30 Traditional had the 1 11/16" nut and in general was designed to be "closer" to the vintage specs (than the Standard) although I am not going to trust my memory and venture a guess as to which decade was "vintage".

My recollection from listening to Mrs. Fro and friends swap back and forth between an F-30 Standard and F-30 Traditional was there was no sonic reason to pick one over the other. If that is true, and get out your salt shaker because I'm the bass player, it might expand your choices for comparisons.
 

adorshki

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Thanks for the welcome on this Forum!
Now some questions.
I've heard good things about the 70's Guilds. Some have said that the builds are a bit heavy, whereas when Ren was briefly in charge he issued the F-30 Standard with a lighter build, 1 3/4" nut and adi braces.
Welcome aboard, Bengal!
Yes to your question about NH F30 Standard
The builds are reported to have gone back and forth in the '70's. Early apparently still used Hoboken's "light build" philosophy but they started getting "heavy" in mid-70's.
There's been speculation that it may have been a result of the increasing popularity of acoustic guitars and a resulting jump in warranty claims on Guild's increased output.
I believe the 70's F-30s have 1 11/16" nuts, correct?
That was normally found on the 25-1/2 inch necks, but we're getting to used to seeing "off-spec" nuts on Guilds, 1-5/8 being the other most common width up through Tacoma.
Also, I've heard that the body dimensions of the 70's F-30s are slightly different than the F-30s under Ren.
F30's have had no less than 3 different body shapes over time, and have had both 25-1/2 and 24-3/4 inch scales.
'66:
s-l300.jpg


'75:
vsgvp07xjdlqkcsbfpcs.jpg


Don't recall when which scales were used, but there's been some recent (last 90 days?) discussion about it.
I'll try to put up another post with a link, later, if somebody doesn't beat me to it.


I have seen some videos and the Standards seem to have bit more of a lush sound than some of the 70's models (I find those sound a bit more direct and fundamental, which tends to be my preference). I know listening online does not compare to personal experience (only my ears can tell, etc.) but I would appreciate any
thoughts on this.
New Hartford heralded a return to the light and resonant build philosophy and there's a fair contingent of "experienced owners" who believe Guild hit their pinnacle for sound quality there.
So your perception probably has some validity.
 
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txbumper57

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They made two versions of the F30 in New Hartford with the Traditional series model or "Aragon" as it was sometimes called having an Adirondack Top as well as Scalloped Adirondack Bracing with Honduran Hog back and sides and a 1-11/16" nut width. They also had a 3 piece neck with the Chesterfield headstock inlay if I recall correctly and a full Gloss Nitro finish with open back Gotoh tuners.

The F30 Standard in New Hartford was made with a Sitka Spruce top, Scalloped Adirondack Bracing, Honduran Hog back and sides on the regular model and East Indian Rosewood back and sides on the F30R Standard model with both variations of the Standard series having the wider 1-3/4" nut width. The necks were one piece Mahogany Satin Nitro finished with the simple Guild Rooftop logo and Gotoh Closed back tuners. The early 2011 and 2012 Standard series models had full Gloss Nitro bodies while the later models had Gloss Nitro tops with satin Nitro back and sides. The Standard series Guilds from New Hartford are Amazing instruments and are right up there in tone and Play ability with the much more expensive Traditional models I own.

Personally If I had the choice between a 70's F30 and a New Hartford F30 either traditional or Standard series I would hands down pick the New Hartford model as I think they are the best Guilds ever made in reference to tone, Quality of Materials, Play ability, and Craftsmanship but that is just my personal opinion of course.

There are several members here who own New Hartford F30's of both variations and I am sure they will be along shortly to give their opinions as well. Best of luck on whatever you decide and I hope this info helps!

TX
 
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adorshki

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New Hartford heralded a return to the light and resonant build philosophy
Just realized that could imply that they were "built heavy" ever since the late '70's but that's not the case.
For the period from the late '70's up through late Westerly (closed in late '01); they oscillated.
Gruhn era ca 84-88 seemed to herald a return of the "light build", the late '80's-mid '90's were a little heavier again, then late Westerly (Ca '95-'01) went light again.
Any guitar from any of those periods just needs to be evaluated personally to see if meets your sound requirements.
Corona, which has a reputation of being built like tanks again, didn't make F30's, probably because they had already planned to introduce the MIC version, the GADF30
Tacoma saw a return of the F30 and reintroduced the classic "Aragon" name
They signaled the return to lighter more resonant build philosophy that was perfected in NH, and the first use of Adi tops by Guild.
Anyway, all that by way of reassuring you there's a lot of options out there.


I'll try to put up another post with a link, later, if somebody doesn't beat me to it.
ah, here we go, from this thread:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?194962-F-112-questions/page3
And although the OP is asking about F112's, that 12-er was based on the F30 body so the size variation comments are pertinent, and the poster SFIV1967 is one of our best sources for historical data like this:

Yes, three very different animals. I was on the search some time ago and had the same question, so I had a conversation with Hans about them. Hans told me due to the high number of daily questions he has not much time to chat about different models, so I allow myself to repost what he explained to me:

"The '60s style F-30 body is more like a fingerstyle guitar with good definition and not a very deep voice. Really nice sounding in a 12-string. Not very aggressive. Bright and clear with not too much low end.
The '70s style F-30 body is more like a small jumbo; very well suited for fingerstyle but great for strumming. The deeper body gives it a nice 'low end' rumble, that some people like.
If you're a strummer, you should go for the '70s style but if you like intimate fingerstyle, the '60s style might be the better choice.
"

Ralf

You like Mississippi John Hurt?:
24837957.jpg

'at's an F30, baby!
 
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bobouz

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BB - A short while ago I answered your question on the Gibson forum.

Rather than rewrite it here, please check it out for some additional info!
 

Kitarkus

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Great responses here by knowledgeable folks. Al nailed this for you. Used F-30's are not among the easier guitars to shop... because the F-30 has been a variety of differing 'things' through the years. If you want a 1 3/4" nut width...you are going to have to look among more recent years. If you want a smaller nut and narrower neck....more likely you'll find that from the earlier years. Beefier neck?....go to the mid-late 70's forward a few years +/-. Short scale vs. long scale....hog vs rosewood....differing body shapes/dimensions....the F-30 had all of these at varying times and among varying F-30 models and eras. Once you think you know the characteristics of an F-30 from a given era...you are sure to find a guitar that proves your theories wrong. Are you confused yet?.....well.....welcome to Guild!

Enjoy the guitar shopping...and please remember that Al will be here during the week....but our temp staff assists here over the weekends ;)
 

tommym

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Don't let weight alone sway you on your decision; it's just one factor among many.

Weight of my F30's are as follows:

4.2 pounds - 1972 F-30
4.6 pounds - 1973 F-30

4.3 pounds - 2011 F-30 Standard
4.3 pounds - 2011 F-30R Standard (yep, same weight as the F-30 Standard)

Tommy
 

Bonneville88

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TommyM, how do your NH F30s compare sonically to the Westerlys?

I have two NH F30 standards... they're different but both are the absolute bomb-diggity!
Nothing else I have, and I have many, can really compare to what an F30 can do.
Almost seems at times they have some kind of built-in sound enhancement, like the Yama Trans-acoustics, but
way better, less synthetic. Bought the 2nd one to prove to myself that the first one
wasn't just a fluke... and it wasn't.

Either one will make me shake my head and smile and
wonder how a guitar can sound so crazy good! And with the 1 3/4"
nut, sooooo comfortable.

Someday when I'm down to my last guitar, it'll be an NH F30!
 
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bayoubengal1954

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Thanks for all the great information. During my research I found this clip of a '72.



I do like the tone, but there is no fingerpicking in the demo. Comments?

The start of a journey! I'll need to sell one in my inventory first (I have the one in/one out rule). 😀
Thanks again for all the help!
 

tommym

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TommyM, how do your NH F30s compare sonically to the Westerlys?

I have two NH F30 standards... they're different but both are the absolute bomb-diggity!
Nothing else I have, and I have many, can really compare to what an F30 can do.
Almost seems at times they have some kind of built-in sound enhancement, like the Yama Trans-acoustics, but
way better, less synthetic. Bought the 2nd one to prove to myself that the first one
wasn't just a fluke... and it wasn't.

Either one will make me shake my head and smile and
wonder how a guitar can sound so crazy good! And with the 1 3/4"
nut, sooooo comfortable.

Someday when I'm down to my last guitar, it'll be an NH F30!

Currently, the 72, 73, and 2011 F-30 Standard have Elixir Bronze Nanoweb Lights. The 72 and 73 have a more focused voice than the 2011 F-30 Standard. The 2011 F-30 Standard takes the edge off of that voice and adds a little more warmth / shimmer to the equation; not by much, but enough to hear the difference. Each of the voices have their strong points.

Tommy
 

Bonneville88

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Cool - thanks.

The guitar in the video posted by BB looks more like my arch-back GF25 than an F30.

Sure doesn't sound like either of my F30s.

GF25 front
GF25 front
NH F30 front

BmjdCRJ.jpg

U3nrK95.jpg

HJxXJBO.jpg
 

tommym

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Cool - thanks.

The guitar in the video posted by BB looks more like my arch-back GF25 than an F30.

My 72 and 73 are the some body style as the one shown in the video; it's a flat back, deep body. At the lower bout, my 72 and 73 both come in at a hair over 4 5/8" deep; my 2011 F-30 Standard comes in at a hair over 4 1/4". It's a very noticeable difference when they are standing next to each other. I also own a 1981 F-30 arched back that is similar to your GF25, except the the more traditional Guild headstock. I have it on loan to a friend; hopefully I'll get it back in one piece someday.

Tommy
 

Bonneville88

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Tommy - great info, thanks!

jcwu - the anti-gravity guitar suspension system?
Got it at Wal-mart, $19.95. Way cooler than the wood sticks I used to use.
Great for photos... family pics can get interesting too :biggrin-new:
 

tommym

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Thanks for all the great information. During my research I found this clip of a '72.

I do like the tone, but there is no fingerpicking in the demo. Comments?

The start of a journey! I'll need to sell one in my inventory first (I have the one in/one out rule). ��
Thanks again for all the help!

Be careful when using the likes of YouTube videos to determine the true tone of any guitar, as there are many hardware variables on the both sides of the computer that may sway what you hear through your speakers. That being said, on my old computer / 2.1 speaker system, the guitar in that video does indeed sound close enough to what I hear from my 72 and 73 F-30's.

I've got too many guitars too. In my younger days, I had a ten in / give one away rule.....:applouse:......then I got married......:sorrow:
Like Rocket Raccoon, I winked at her with the wrong eye.

Tommy
 
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bayoubengal1954

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Be careful when using the likes of YouTube videos to determine the true tone of any guitar, as there are many hardware variables on the both sides of the computer that may sway what you hear through your speakers. That being said, on my old computer / 2.1 speaker system, the guitar in that video does indeed sound close enough to what I hear from my 72 and 73 F-30's.

I've got too many guitars too. In my younger days, I had a ten in / give one away rule.....:applouse:......then I got married......:sorrow:
Like Rocket Racoon, I winked at her with the wrong eye.

Tommy

Thanks, Tommy. Totally with you on listening to clips on computers. It helps me a little more when I listen to two different guitars for the sake of comparison.

For instance the F-30 Standard sounds lovely, but a bit more lush or "shimmery" (some compression was added though which could make a difference). I tend to go for the more fundamental tone from the "72 (but the 1 3/4" nut of the Standard does come into play).


FWIW, the '72 guitar in the video seems to check out to be an F-30.

 
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