Incoming!!!! 1971 D-25 Flatback

Westerly Wood

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these look right?

i got to get the # on back of headstock on mine to see how close ours was in production in 71. mine was more towards the end of the year...

i replaced the tuners on mine several years ago, as they were woeful and one was breaking off. i don't remember the stock tuners but those look close to what i recall, memory fuzzy. Hans or Mav can weigh in eventually for sure. I know first digit of my serial no is a 5 :)
 

mavuser

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and Mav you go with the Martin Retros on yours?

indeed, they sound fantastic and last forever. have been known to rock the John Pearse 11s (SL550s) as well, but those have much shorter lifespan. i recommend both for that quintessential mahogany top/mellow tone.
 

adorshki

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Oh I thought you meant rare cause they only made the 1971's that one year hehehehe

Good one! I'm much less worried about neck block now, but good thing you're letting a professional check it out.
I agree the nitro cracking around heel joint could simply be because it's shrunk so much with age now.
Only other detail I'd check would be combined height of bridge and saddle , traditional "Ideal" is about 1/2", give or take maybe some 64th" fractions, for optimum energy transfer to top.
I just can't tell from the pic angles.
But I'm sure that's something Mr Mcblane can check and evaluate.
Thing is, a shaved bridge cane make the neck alignment look good when in fact the bridge is now less than ideal height.
I'm just kind of surprised the neck alignment is so good if it's never had a reset (Doesn't look like it, at the neck joint, where one would expect to see evidence of finish touch-up in spite of the probable "aging" crack)
Great phots for really being able to see that stuff.
Regarding Woody's comment about why lights could sound better than mediums:
Fine guitars are actually designed around what string tension they're intended to handle.
The top and its bracing are designed to produce their optimum vibration under that amount of string tension , which has been called "pre-load".
Tops are literally like drum skins if one considers the strings to be acting like the screws on drums that adjust the skin tension.
Too loose (like light strings on a top designed for mediums) and skin is floppy, no volume or punch.
Too tight, like mediums on a top designed for lights, same thing from the opposite end, skin (top) can't vibrate enough to give good punch and tone. "Too much preload"
So guitar tops sound their best when under the right amount of preload.
I also have a companion hypothesis that if the lights are easier for a player to play, they can also give a bigger arc of travel for the same amount of plucking force and thus sound as good as mediums, even though there's less tension.
There's an electricity analogy here: it's not the volts (total tension) that kill you, it's the amperage (how big an arc of travel the gauge allows at tension)
I think that's why Guild went to lights on almost everything in late Westerly.
We just don't know for sure what Guild was using when that '71 was built.
It looks as though it's been well-cared for and may well have been strung with lights all its life, and that might be why the neck angle is so good besides.
 
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beecee

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Only other detail I'd check would be combined height of bridge and saddle , traditional "Ideal" is about 1/2", give or take maybe some 64th" fractions,

7/16".

or 1.2 cm
 

adorshki

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Only other detail I'd check would be combined height of bridge and saddle , traditional "Ideal" is about 1/2", give or take maybe some 64th" fractions,

7/16".

Ahh, it took me a minute realize, are you're saying that's combined height on that guitar?
If saddle height's about 40% of that, roughly 5/32" or even 3/16 "ideal", that sounds pretty darn good.***
Also: Measured at roughly 4th-5th string, or tallest point of bridge?
It's been a long time but I also seem to recall reports of Guilds from that era being in that range "as built", so still sounding pretty good so far!
(Edited that earlier post for a bit more clarity)
Also, sorry can't answer the tuner question, except that 3-on-a-strip is period correct.

**Edited for accuracy right after posting.
 
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Westerly Wood

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indeed, they sound fantastic and last forever. have been known to rock the John Pearse 11s (SL550s) as well, but those have much shorter lifespan. i recommend both for that quintessential mahogany top/mellow tone.

Next time I try the retro lights, ..12-.54, I got to give them a few days to break in. I hear they need time.
 

beecee

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Not sure why but my bs meter is on alert. This thing looks too good to be true.

There is absolutely NO fret wear at all.

Hmmmmm..could this be a GAD or Westerly with the wrong sticker.

I mean look at the nut and TRC
 

adorshki

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Not sure why but my bs meter is on alert. This thing looks too good to be true.

There is absolutely NO fret wear at all.

Hmmmmm..could this be a GAD or Westerly with the wrong sticker.

I mean look at the nut and TRC

IF there's a rod under the TRC it CAN'T be MIC.
Also I think they all had pearloid inlays in headstock.
And they don't have stamped s/n's under the finish.
Or old-style labels which are very hard to counterfeit.
And poly finish doesn't shrink into the grain.
That's NCL nodoubtaboutit.
You just might have a true closet queen there, my friend.
It happens.
It just always happens to somebody else.....
 

Rayk

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I think you've all created a picture monster
Pics a bit blurred what’s up with binding is like that on the opposite side of the neck ? Oh is the neck heal the same on the other side as well ?

Forgive it was already stated I unfortunately did read all the posts .

That top is actractive 😁
 
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mavuser

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Pics a bit blurred what’s up with binding is like that on the opposite side of the neck ? Oh is the neck heal the same on the other side as well ?

Forgive it was already stated I unfortunately did read all the posts .

That top is actractive 

Binding and purfling looks good, Ray. just a blurry photo and the shadow but that looks tight.

beecee You got lucky! these pop up but they dont walk into GC too often that shiny, especially the cherry. whoever brought that in there is crazy, as is any employee or local shopper in the store that did not snag it! i would put this guitar up against any Martin, all day. congrats and enjoy!
 

adorshki

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I mean look at the nut and TRC
Forgot to address those details last time, but TRC's period correct.
Yes nut and saddle do look too white to be original, even if cased for 40 years I'd expect the original material to have yellowed with age over time.
So maybe it just got a nice set up that included replacing those before it found its way to GC.
IT also occurs to me, as for zero fret wear: if they were dressed that could explain the clean appearance and maybe the reason to replace nut/saddle as well, to better work with new slightly lower fret height?
Typically brand new frets will have a rounded crown but dressed frets have a slightly flatter top, because it's pretty tough to give 'em a new "crown".
Some guys even do it on purpose and lower the action pretty drastically to give a more "electric" feel.
If I wasn't already so happily married I could almost be jealous.
:friendly_wink:
But there's nothing wrong with just being curious and if I saw it in a shop, I would most certainly give it a few minutes of time, something I don't normally do.
 

Westerly Wood

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Not sure why but my bs meter is on alert. This thing looks too good to be true.

There is absolutely NO fret wear at all.

Hmmmmm..could this be a GAD or Westerly with the wrong sticker.

I mean look at the nut and TRC

😀. No way is it a GAD. And that is a Hoboken TRC if I am remembering correctly. No fret wear is awesome news! Mine has a lot of wear, had it dressed a bit when it had a neck reset. I don’t notice it at all.
 

davismanLV

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In this photo that you initially posted, it was the geometry of the sides (where they meet the neck heel) that made me wonder if the neck block had moved. The sides look as though they might have pulled down toward the soundhole a bit.

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I'm curious to hear whether your repair person thinks that could also account for the cracking you now see around the heel. If so, I would have expected to see more-dramatic cracking in the top, at the soundhole.
I'm wondering this as well as on one of the soundhold photos it looks like a crack running down from the fretboard to the soundhole! That would indicate the neck block has slipped and that's really tough repair. Lemme know what your repair guy says!!

Sure is pretty. :encouragement::encouragement:
 
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