John Denver's F 412 Special - rare

Cypress Knee

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Hello All,

Just checking in after a long hiatus. I found this clip of John Denver playing "When I'm 64" on the 12 string guitar featured on the album cover for Poems, Prayers and Promises. I am not sure how to get youtube links to work, but here is the direct hyperlink:

https://youtu.be/1yR_UKdD-Zs

You need to fast forward to about 3:50.

For JD fans, the person posting this video has a ton of rare John Denver footage if you click on the link for his uploads.

Regards,

CK
 

gilded

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Gents, when I look at the pics of the sound hole around that time marker of 3:50, I think I see bracing inside on the back. Are you guys sure it's a 412? Inquiring mind wants to know!

Harry
 

Rayk

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Guess John was a small guy or that’s the super super jumbo haha
 

chazmo

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Gents, when I look at the pics of the sound hole around that time marker of 3:50, I think I see bracing inside on the back. Are you guys sure it's a 412? Inquiring mind wants to know!

Harry

Yup, that's braced back, Harry. Very interesting and good catch. Most likely either mahogany or rosewood, as it looks kind of dark, but I can't be sure. So, F-212XL, maybe? It's possibly it's a rosewood 12 though. I wonder if Hans knows. Back in the mid '60s, there was an F-412 SPEC that was arched (lam.) rosewood. Maybe this was a flatback (solid) version? Maybe the model name that CK sites is wrong.
 

mavuser

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looks like a 612, or a 512 w 612 inlays. certianly sounds like a rw 12
 

txbumper57

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I do know that in the 60's before they came up with the F512 moniker that the rosewood versions were often called a F412 Special with the "Special" designating the solid flatback rosewood back and sides on a F412 Body Shape. That could be the case here. Just an Idea of course.

TX
 
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adorshki

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Yup, that's braced back, Harry. Very interesting and good catch. Most likely either mahogany or rosewood, as it looks kind of dark, but I can't be sure. So, F-212XL, maybe?
Only thing, I don't ever recall hearing of an F212 with those neck inlays.
On the other hand, that probably don't mean nuthin' since they made an F50 with an Artist Award headstock inlay for 'im....
 

chazmo

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That's right, Al. Yup, the neck inlays would be all but unheard of on an F-212XL, but it's very hard to say with JD because of all the customizing he had done to his guitars over the years.

In any case, very cool to see that recording (well, recordings, that is), CypressKnee. Thanks for that.
 

sailingshoes72

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Wow that is a nice performance, I had no clue the man could play like that.

Me neither! I was in my late teens and early twenties during the 70's... so I heard a lot of JD on the radio and juke boxes. But I never really paid attention to his guitar playing. Thanks for posting! :encouragement:
 

mavuser

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i just really watched the video and the inside of that guitar is really red, it almost has to be Brazilian RW, no? but the headstock has no sheild and no Chesty, it looks like the M-20? but it has 612 inlays?
 

Cypress Knee

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John Denver was playing that Guild by November of 1968 with the Mitchell Trio and Denver, Boise & Johnson. https://youtu.be/ci1YTWsEVcc?t=10 It is also pictured on the cover of his Rhymes and Reasons album in better detail than on PPP.

Guild lists ten F 412's and five F 512's starting in 1968, then four and sixteen in 1969.
F412 N/A N/A N/A OB101 to 110 OB111 to 114
F512 N/A N/A N/A OC201 to 206 OC207 to223

Just what it was called when he got his hands on it, well, maybe Hans knows.

CK
 
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SFIV1967

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looks like a 612, or a 512 w 612 inlays. certianly sounds like a rw 12
Mind that the guitar has no G-Shield only the Guild name on the headstock! Almost like a F-312. But already a bound fingerboard.

John_Denver-Poems_Prayers-Promises-2-Front.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg



Ralf
 

idealassets

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That's his F-612 in the video with S/N OD 101 with the vine inlays.

3e93fbbfe81686d2a33166f3d9d90dda.jpg


Ralf

Thanks for the post. I added the serial number to my F612 census. This is a great image of JD's F612 so called #2 F612 guitar (I think). Perhaps by the interesting serial number it may have actually been his 1st F612 guitar, although an antiquated JD guitar site referred to this vine fretboard as being F612 guitar #2. I'm not sure if I'm right on this though.

What is interesting is that the SN system uses the letter/ number combination that was begun by Guild in the late 1960's. The official Guild factory dating info, through interpolation would give a 1968 F412 as OB 101, a 1968 F512 as OC 101, and therefore a 1968 F612 might be numbered "OD 101" for the first one made that year.

So John Denver was getting some interesting guitars at quite an early time in the realm of custom sounds and builds.
 
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idealassets

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The guitar in the original post certainly sounds and looks like JD is playing an F212 XL body to me. When the JD guitar websites were forthcoming with more information, I recall reading that this is the model of guitar (F212 XL) on that album cover, and in the photo of JD holding a guitar alongside a river somewhere in Colorado it is the same F212 XL guitar.
 
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