Getting worse for Gibson

marcellis

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I'm visiting Gibson's Memphis factory this week or next. I'll see if I can talk to Henry J. & get the low down for y'all.

(Yes, I verified G is still conducting tours in Memphis. $10)
 

dreadnut

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I know it's a financial article, but there is no mention of what they would need to do to turn the company around in terms of manufacturing quality; on the other hand maybe it's already too late for that.
 

walrus

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That's a very interesting article. Makes you wonder if their move into "electronics" is working...

walrus
 

davismanLV

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It kind of intimates that the acquisition of the electronics part of the business was expensive and not very profitable, so far. At least, that's what I got from it. Did I miss something?
 

marcellis

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I know it's a financial article, but there is no mention of what they would need to do to turn the company around in terms of manufacturing quality; on the other hand maybe it's already too late for that.

I bought 3 Gibson NOS guitars last year (2 for me & 1 for a son). All good, PLEK'd & played just fine out of the box. I cannot attest to the quality of the expensive models. But lower-priced Gibsons from previous model years can be insane bargains. Cheaper than Newark Street & in my experience - better quality.

My favorite playing guitar right now is my Les Paul Special double-cut. It's a joy to play.

Watch Sam Ash & Chicago Music Exchange. CME had ES 335's & 339's for $895 w/case a few days ago. Offer $800. They buy them in bulk from Gibson. I wanted to get an ES Les Paul for the same price. But I bought too damned many guitars last year. I'm finished.
 
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richardp69

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I've popped for several upper end Gibson acoustics. Except for the J 160E I have not been one bit disappointed.
 

GAD

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I've owned three or for Gibson Historics that were absolute monsters. I had a '90s LP Jr that was pretty great, too.

I don't think it's the guitars - I think it's the business side of things.
 

marcellis

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Maybe the bad business situation is causing the fire-sale prices? Dunno.

But I bought a son this guitar from Sam Ash. It cost $479 - straight from the warehouse in a sealed box. People are apparently flipping them for almost 2x as much.

I got a 2017 - Les Paul Faded for free. Retail was $720-780 at the time.
I exchanged my defective NS SF3 for it. Sweetwater gave me a $200 credit.

The Les Paul Special double-cut was the best buy of all. $579 w/a gold Gibson
hardshell case. Are you kidding me? Insane price. My Mexican Fender cost more
than any of the Gibsons I bought.

All 3 arrived in factory-sealed boxes brand new.
 
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twocorgis

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Word on the street is that Yamaha is going to take over the guitar business, and that can only be a good thing I think.
 

mavuser

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Man. Are these USA made guitars you're talking about ?

All Gibsons are made in the USA.

i got a brand new 2009 LP Jr in 2012 at Sam Ash for $606 plus tax. (sunburst)

I got a brand new 2011 Melody Maker flying V, in 2011, for $299 plus tax. (black- now autographed by Grace Potter)

i got a brand new 2003 Melody Maker Les Paul, in 2004, for $330 plus $30 shipping, online (black)

I got a brand new 2009 Melody Maker 1959 reissue, in 2012, for $305 delivered online (black)

I got a brand new 2013 SJ-G, in 2013, from GC for $375 delivered over the phone (red)

all were brand new and included Gibson factory bags, Gibson cardboard boxes etc.

I sold one of the above guitars while it was still NOS. I wish I hadn't now, if they are about to tank. 2 of the others are still unplayed- one being the SG which I also wound up getting the Gibson hard case for (for $145 from GC instead of $199- in 2013).

will hate to see them go!
 

marcellis

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Man. Are these USA made guitars you're talking about ?

Every one of them - made in Nashville. Keep your eye on Sam Ash & Chicago Music Exchange.
They take these guitars in bulk apparently and sell them for really low prices.


All Gibsons are made in the USA.

i got a brand new 2009 LP Jr in 2012 at Sam Ash for $606 plus tax. (sunburst)

I got a brand new 2011 Melody Maker flying V, in 2011, for $299 plus tax. (black- now autographed by Grace Potter)

i got a brand new 2003 Melody Maker Les Paul, in 2004, for $330 plus $30 shipping, online (black)

I got a brand new 2009 Melody Maker 1959 reissue, in 2012, for $305 delivered online (black)

I got a brand new 2013 SJ-G, in 2013, from GC for $375 delivered over the phone (red)

all were brand new and included Gibson factory bags, Gibson cardboard boxes etc.

I sold one of the above guitars while it was still NOS. I wish I hadn't now, if they are about to tank. 2 of the others are still unplayed- one being the SG which I also wound up getting the Gibson hard case for (for $145 from GC instead of $199- in 2013).

will hate to see them go!

Lower-priced Gibson USA models are some extreme bargains. I don't think any foreign maker is
competing on price right now.

The Fender below is an import from Mexico. The two Gibsons are made in USA. The Fender was more expensive than either one.

fetch
 

fronobulax

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I know it's a financial article, but there is no mention of what they would need to do to turn the company around in terms of manufacturing quality; on the other hand maybe it's already too late for that.

My assessment of the situation as described is that a) it was not created by any product issues but by the choices that lead to the debt structure; and b) the time has past to address the situation with "product".

My limited experience from reading about these kinds of deals leads me to two conclusions. The first is that the rules that might apply to me as an individual or a small business owner do not apply and trying to apply them might actually lose money. The second is that for the dollars involved the underlying business is but a small part of the deal. Indeed some deals are structured so that debt holders will still make (or not lose) money if bankruptcy occurs.

Tangentially, the article says Henry J. has a significant ownership stake. In all the Henry bashing I've seen here I never realized he was the owner and not just someone that a Board of Directors was willing to keep around. I'm kind of reminded of an NFL franchise that has never done well under the current owner and the widespread belief among the fan base that the best way to fix the team is to get a new owner.
 

Kitarkus

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I see that the LP Jr. has gone back to a more traditional nut/neck width. Back in 2015 when they put the robotuners on.....they widened that neck to well OVER 1.75" which turned a lot of electric players off. I see they are back now without the robotuners and with the 1.6875 nut. I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat if I could get a remotely similar 'deal' when compared to those mentioned here. Retail price has gone way up on these little guitars. $1450????....Gibson is crazy
 
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Default

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I see that the LP Jr. has gone back to a more traditional nut/neck width. Back in 2015 when they put the robotuners on.....they widened that neck to well OVER 1.75" which turned a lot of electric players off. I see they are back now without the robotuners and with the 1.6875 nut. I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat if I could get a remotely similar 'deal' when compared to those mentioned here. Retail price has gone way up on these little guitars.

Deal = dumping unwanted product

I actually like the neck, because my fingers are pudgy. The electronics are on a circuitboard so that has to go. Unshielded everything, so I don't know how it would sound at a gig.
 

Kitarkus

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Deal = dumping unwanted product

I actually like the neck, because my fingers are pudgy. The electronics are on a circuitboard so that has to go. Unshielded everything, so I don't know how it would sound at a gig.

I don't gig but I do have my own set of wants. This new 2018 LPJR is exactly what I would want....but not at $1400+. If there come any great deals on these...I'll get in line to pick one up. This is the coolest non custom shop LPJR that I've seen in years. I'd like some color/finish options....but the burst is fine by me.
 

marcellis

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Deal = dumping unwanted product

I actually like the neck, because my fingers are pudgy. The electronics are on a circuitboard so hat has to go. Unshielded everything, so I don't know how it would sound at a gig.

My guitar tech & myself might be the only two players on earth who like the robos. I haven’t asked my son yet. Worst-case scenario, they can always be replaced w/manuals. Or just tune manually. Don’t turn it on.

I had a set installed on my Les Paul Faded too.I bought them from a guy who had removed them from his pricey LP Standard. My tech gigged w-my LP Special. No prob’s w/robos or anything else. Sam Ash sold out before he could buy one.

According to Mavuser’s post, NOS previous model year Gibson blow-outs have been
happening for years. I remember my son bought an NOS SG for $700 about 10 years ago. Frets like railroad ties. Cost another $200 to set it up properly.

But these CME & Sam Ash blow-out GIBSONs have all been PLEK’d. Fretwork was fine out of the box. Tweak intonation & away you go.

I see that the LP Jr. has gone back to a more traditional nut/neck width. Back in 2015 when they put the robotuners on.....they widened that neck to well OVER 1.75" which turned a lot of electric players off. I see they are back now without the robotuners and with the 1.6875 nut. I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat if I could get a remotely similar 'deal' when compared to those mentioned here. Retail price has gone way up on these little guitars. $1450????....Gibson is crazy

I have the 1.75 neck on my Special w-titanium nut. I love it. It’s the one guitar w-my F65ce that is always a pleasure to play. I prefer the sound of my Jazzmaster single-coils to Gibson P90’s. But I wish the Jazzmaster played like that little red LP Special.

I don't gig but I do have my own set of wants. This new 2018 LPJR is exactly what I would want....but not at $1400+. If there come any great deals on these...I'll get in line to pick one up. This is the coolest non custom shop LPJR that I've seen in years. I'd like some color/finish options....but the burst is fine by me.

Wait 2 years & Sam Ash or CME will be blowing them out for less than half that price.
 
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Rayk

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Yamaha would be a good company to take over Gib , on the flip side Epiphone would be cool to .

But Gibson can go chapter 11 or something and come out with a restructure and keep on chugging .

Whatever happened to “ To Big To fail ?” Oh wrong president my bad lol
 
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Westerly Wood

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Word on the street is that Yamaha is going to take over the guitar business, and that can only be a good thing I think.

Wow, that is huge news. Their acoustic production as well? Does this mean Bozeman is closing?
 
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