Getting worse for Gibson

fronobulax

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Yamaha might be a good match. It’s an electronics company too.

Funny. My free association between "Yamaha" and "music" is pianos. If you asked me what Yamaha made I'd get pianos, motorcycles, outboard motors and then start hemming and hawing. Probably a function of my misspent youth since I knew people who bought pianos and at least discussed whether a Yamaha might be right for them.
 

marcellis

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Funny. My free association between "Yamaha" and "music" is pianos. If you asked me what Yamaha made I'd get pianos, motorcycles, outboard motors and then start hemming and hawing. Probably a function of my misspent youth since I knew people who bought pianos and at least discussed whether a Yamaha might be right for them.

Yamaha studio monitors have been a standard for decades. The NS-10's are famous or infamous, depending on your POV. But they were the standard for many years. Gibson OTOH, makes monitors too - Les Paul monitors. (What else would they name them?) Gibson also owns KRK - which might be a good pick-up for Yamaha.

I am not sure Gibson's guitar division is actually losing money. From OP article, it implies Gibson's core business is stable. I'd be surprised if KRK is losing money. Dunno about Cerwin-Vega. That's another good pick-up for Yamaha - a competitor in live sound.

Henry J made some bad bets in electronics and software. I'm thinking KRK was a good pick-up though.

I'm familiar w/Yamaha synths & keyboards. Their lower-price series are good deals. But their top synths are always tough to figure out. I steer clear of them.

Gibson OTOH, once partnered with Roland. It didn't last. If Yamaha is truly interested, I'm thinking it is on the electronics side - rather than the guitar sector. Maybe I'm wrong.

Another area of synergy would be in music software. Yamaha owns Steinberg/Cubase/Nuendo. Gibson stopped supporting Cakewalk/Sonar but still owns the brand.

There are a lot of areas they have in common. Gibson wants to be a consumer electronics company. Yamaha already is. Yamaha may want to have a prestige line of guitars. Gibson already does.

It sounds too good to be true. So I don't think it will happen. At least, I don't think it will be a major partnership, a'la Gibson/Yamaha brands. (Yamaha/Gibson ?)

Les Paul monitors.

GibsonLesPaulMonitoresAES2014Web.jpg
 
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Kitarkus

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It sounds too good to be true. So I don't think it will happen. At least, I don't think it will be a major partnership, a'la Gibson/Yamaha brands. (Yamaha/Gibson ?)

Les Paul monitors.

Stranger things have happened. These two seem like good bedfellows. Gibson will want more than they deserve from Yamaha....egos will collide....so you are probably right. If cooler heads prevail....this could be a great move for both companies imo. I believe Gibson has dug such a deep hole for themselves that they could be unable to clearly see their way out of it. Someone said it here before....but the creditors involvement and Henry J's dis-involvement will be key.
 

twocorgis

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Stranger things have happened. These two seem like good bedfellows. Gibson will want more than they deserve from Yamaha....egos will collide....so you are probably right. If cooler heads prevail....this could be a great move for both companies imo. I believe Gibson has dug such a deep hole for themselves that they could be unable to clearly see their way out of it. Someone said it here before....but the creditors involvement and Henry J's dis-involvement will be key.

Getting Henry J out of the picture is key to any long term survival of the company. What a vile, egotistical man he is. I'm still pissed at him for poaching all that wood.
 

marcellis

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Yamaha has an impenetrable corporate culture. That won't change. Gibson also has its own difficult corporate culture that won't change until - as many say - the current CEO is gone. They may be a good fit on the electronic side. Gibson would get the best of that deal for sure.

I don't know how their musical instrument sides would mesh. I don't see how Yamaha gets $375 million worth from Gibson's guitar line. But in consumer electronics - Gibson could really cash in w/Yamaha's products & expertise.
 

adorshki

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Funny. My free association between "Yamaha" and "music" is pianos.

Well that was in fact their original business, from the "usual source":
"Yamaha was established in 1887 as a piano and reed organ manufacturer by Torakusu Yamaha as in Hamamatsu, Shizuoka prefecture and was incorporated on October 12, 1897. The company's origins as a musical instrument manufacturer are still reflected today in the group's logo—a trio of interlocking tuning forks.[4]"
and:
"Yamaha has grown to become the world's largest manufacturer of musical instruments (including pianos, "silent" pianos, drums, guitars, brass instruments, woodwinds, violins, violas, celli, and vibraphones), as well as a leading manufacturer of semiconductors, audio/visual, computer related products, sporting goods, home appliances, specialty metals and industrial robots.[6]"

Seem to recall reading some reviews a few years back indicating many symphony orchestras and concert halls consider them to be the finest pianos money can buy.
Just for giggles:


Obviously they know a thing or 2 about wood and construction and much as I'm a "US-built guitar" loyalist I agree with TwoCorgis: a Yamaha acquisition of Gibson can only be a good thing for Gibson.
It's an obvious interlocking fit of existing specialties for each.

And it is about the approaching servicing due on loans, and investors wanting their money, not anything inherently broken about the business.
Just like it was for Fender a few years back.
That bit about investors potentially wanting Juskiewicz to cash out some of his equity was the telling point:

"Kevin Cassidy, a senior credit officer at Moody’s Investors Service, says Juszkiewicz essentially has just three options: He and his team could negotiate an exchange of their debt coming due for new notes, which may not be feasible at a reasonable price. He also could be persuaded — or forced — to give up some of his equity in exchange for the debt payments. Or he may end up taking one of the most globally recognized brands that calls Nashville home to bankruptcy court.."
 
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merlin6666

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Funny. My free association between "Yamaha" and "music" is pianos. If you asked me what Yamaha made I'd get pianos, motorcycles, outboard motors and then start hemming and hawing. Probably a function of my misspent youth since I knew people who bought pianos and at least discussed whether a Yamaha might be right for them.

I knew more people personally who played Yamaha acoustic guitars than Gibson acoustics, and I'm of the generation that grew up with John Denver and Carlos Santana on the radio, who were known for playing Yamaha guitars.
 

walrus

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I had a Yamaha acoustic in the '70's - great little guitar! But I too, still think "piano" when I hear the name.

walrus
 

bobouz

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Didn't start playing guitar until I was twenty, so my first guitar was a Yamaha FG-160 in 1971. Very nice tone for a laminated instrument (made in Taiwan, btw), although the neck was a bit chunky for me.

But even before that, riding motorcycles in the late '60s, I noticed the Yamaha tuning fork logo being used as their tank emblem, and thought that was a very clean & neat looking logo (didn't really understand at the time that it was three interconnected tuning forks within a circle - just liked the way it looked!).

Well by golly, the FG-160 had that tuning fork logo (& nothing else) on an inward-tapered-at-the-top headstock. Still one of the most aesthetically pleasing headstocks I've ever come across. It got changed within a year or two & included the Yamaha name under the tuning forks, and then unfortunately, the tuning forks were gone & the headstock shape was altered.
 

adorshki

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John Denver and Carlos Santana on the radio, who were known for playing Yamaha guitars.
????
I must have missed something, I always wanted an SG because of him and John Cippolina in Quicksilver Messenger Service.
Even now when I see him playing PRS's it kind of jolts me.
OK waitaminnit.
You dangled that deadpan delivery and I bit, didn't I?
:glee:
 

Quantum Strummer

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Yamaha is good enough for Doctor Who - somebody in his position should be able to pick whatever he wants.

Hah, I picked up one of those after the Doctor started playing his on screen. :) Pretty cool guitar, though the vibrato is a royal PITA to set up properly.

-Dave-
 

mario1956

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This whole thing just played out at GE.....leveraging assets to buy more and prop up the company. The only thing is one day the chickens come home to roost. You would think after Enron scale failures some of these business people could come up with a better idea like....real growth??? But I guess if you can collect your paycheck and obviously have no accountability must be the preferred method.
If Gibson goes under I hope someone who cares about musical instruments gets it.
 

adorshki

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. You would think after Enron scale failures some of these business people could come up with a better idea like....real growth???

Enron was pure and outright fraud.
Gibson just kept borrowing beyond their ability (or the CEO's willingness) to pay.
 

marcellis

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????
I must have missed something, I always wanted an SG because of him and John Cippolina in Quicksilver Messenger Service.
Even now when I see him playing PRS's it kind of jolts me.
OK waitaminnit.
You dangled that deadpan delivery and I bit, didn't I?
:glee:

Dunno if you ever landed one. But you missed NOS SG's getting blown-out at Sam Ash for <$600
about a month ago. Looks like they're sold out.
 

marcellis

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What do you think Yamaha would want from Gibson's product line-up?
KRK for sure. Dunno what else.
--

Yamaha invested in Korg for awhile in the 90's. It worked well because the top guy at Yamaha was a friend with the top guy at Korg. It only lasted a few years and Korg bought the shares back.

It bought Steinberg/Cubase/Nuendo software and kept it going - unlike Gibson's purchase of Cakewalk/Sonar.

If you look at the companies Yamaha has bought, there is always a definite fit and a plan for the future. Two Gibson brands, KRK & Oberheim synths (Mannheim Steamroller) are a fit for Yamaha. KRK competes directly with Yamaha in pro audio.

There are areas of synergy. But I really don't see how their guitar operations could mesh. I'm not even sure Gibson guitar business is losing money. The article implies otherwise. I really don't know what corporate plan Yamaha could have for Gibson guitars.

As I and other posters attest - Gibson is still making quality guitars. So it's not an issue of quality manufacturing. No doubt it could be made more efficient though.

Yamaha doesn't invest in a company without a good plan for the future.
I don't know what sort of plans it would have for Gibson guitars. Buying out KRK
would make sense for Yamaha though. KRK monitors are a success story. A long-shot bet would be buying the Oberheim name & manufacturing retro analog synthesizers.

Guitars? Dunno.

Yamaha Motors is a completely separate corporation from the musical company now.
So we won't be seeing any Gibson Les Paul Motorcycles.

UPDATE: How could I overlook Epiphone? There’s a fit right there. A factory or distribution hub in Japan shipping high-end Gibsons for the growing Asian market. For Gibson, it’s a secure entree into China.
 
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