Getting worse for Gibson

twocorgis

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Wow, that is huge news. Their acoustic production as well? Does this mean Bozeman is closing?
'

Not necessarily. It's no secret that Yamaha has wanted to get into the high end acoustic guitar business for some time, and this is seemingly a good fit. My guess is that they could only improve the often sub-par quality control as it stands now.
 

Westerly Wood

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'

Not necessarily. It's no secret that Yamaha has wanted to get into the high end acoustic guitar business for some time, and this is seemingly a good fit. My guess is that they could only improve the often sub-par quality control as it stands now.

well that is great to know, and i agree. i played a few LL16s, kind of their mid level acoustics at around 500 (i mean mid level for Yamaha) and they are great guitars. great electronics too, all solid tops, just good solid guitars. built well, and i think in China.
 

twocorgis

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well that is great to know, and i agree. i played a few LL16s, kind of their mid level acoustics at around 500 (i mean mid level for Yamaha) and they are great guitars. great electronics too, all solid tops, just good solid guitars. built well, and i think in China.

I think Yamaha makes the best cheap instruments in general, and not just guitars either. They might be the perfect company to restore the luster of this once great brand.
 

Kitarkus

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I was just playing my Yammie FG-110 this morning between phone calls. It is the only guitar that I do not case or humidify....it is an old red label Nippon Gakki that my buddy did a hobby style neck reset on a couple years ago. It plays great....laminate back....and while not a solid high end Guild or other.....has a remarkably pleasant tone and play-ability. Everyone should have a guitar like this one....unfortunately it seems that about 99.9% of them need neck resets that cost more than the instruments themselves. I've got $100 invested in the guitar and it is worth much more if only to me.

Among my guitar playing friends....the Yamaha brand name has a near universal level of acceptance. No small feat.
 

Westerly Wood

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I was just playing my Yammie FG-110 this morning between phone calls. It is the only guitar that I do not case or humidify....it is an old red label Nippon Gakki that my buddy did a hobby style neck reset on a couple years ago. It plays great....laminate back....and while not a solid high end Guild or other.....has a remarkably pleasant tone and play-ability. Everyone should have a guitar like this one....unfortunately it seems that about 99.9% of them need neck resets that cost more than the instruments themselves. I've got $100 invested in the guitar and it is worth much more if only to me.

Among my guitar playing friends....the Yamaha brand name has a near universal level of acceptance. No small feat.

yeah, I always look on CL for red label Yammies. And they usually have such high action I never purchase. Also dont like their neck profile but they do sound great.
 

tommym

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YamaSon Guitars....that sounds about right.

If the Japanese want to make high end guitars, they don't need to buyout an American company to do that. If they want the American brand name for the past historic status, that's OK too.

Tommy
 

twocorgis

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YamaSon Guitars....that sounds about right.

If the Japanese want to make high end guitars, they don't need to buyout an American company to do that. If they want the American brand name for the past historic status, that's OK too.

Tommy

I don't think any brand, with the possible exception of Bose, has more leverage than Gibson, and Henry J has been milking that for years. It makes perfect sense to me for Yamaha to buy the brand, and in all likelihood improve the product immensely.
 

Brad Little

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In the 60s, Konrad Ragossnig, a guitarist on the level of John Williams, Bream, et al, played a Yamaha concert classical. I also played a few of their higher end classical, not the concert model, and they were uniformly excellent. BTW, Ragossnig passed away in January.
Brad
 

Westerly Wood

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my very first guitar was my grandmother's Yamaha classical. Yamaha is a fond memory of mine and will always be a brand I like.
 

Quantum Strummer

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If Gibson transformed themselves into something like Collings they might be able to do better at living up to their 1930s–60s legacy. OTOH we already have Collings, who are making some mighty fine "Gibsons" these days.

I bought two wonderful 335s last year. But they were made in 1982 by Fuji-gen Gakki for Ibanez. This year I've picked up a terrific single-cut LP Special and an outstanding 330, both recently made in Austin, TX. :)

I hope Gibson manages a soft landing rather than a cliff drop. Yamaha taking over might be a good thing. But for the brand as it has been for decades now I have no particular reverence.

-Dave-
 
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bobouz

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Yamaha would be a good company to take over Gib , on the flip side Epiphone would be cool to .

Gibson has owned the Epiphone brand since 1957, and started producing Epiphone guitars at the Kalamazoo factory in 1958.

Overseas production started in 1970.
 

bobouz

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I know it's a financial article, but there is no mention of what they would need to do to turn the company around in terms of manufacturing quality; on the other hand maybe it's already too late for that.

Regarding recent manufacturing quality:

I took delivery last week of a NOS 2015 J-50 custom shop model. The guitar is flawless, has gobs of tone, and one of the most comfortable short-scale necks I've ever played on an acoustic.

Workmanship on my 2012 J-185, 2013 LG-2, and 2014 J-15 are all equally clean, without any QC issues.

My most recent electrics would be a 2012 ES-330 VOS from Memphis, and a 2013 Midtown-Kalamazoo from Nashville. Again, both exhibit no QC issues, and are very satisfying instruments.
 
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Nuuska

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Yamaha is good enough for Doctor Who - somebody in his position should be able to pick whatever he wants.
 

Rayk

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Gibson has owned the Epiphone brand since 1957, and started producing Epiphone guitars at the Kalamazoo factory in 1958.

Overseas production started in 1970.

Yeah my bad , though I’m not sure why got I the thought Epi broke free of Gib .
 

Grassdog

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It would interesting to listen in on some of those creditor meetings. In a negotiation with rational minds and cool heads, yes something could be worked out to insure the survival of the brand. But I'm afraid this isn't going to end well. Henry J is delusional enough to still think he's in the driver's seat (despite the company's vastly over-leveraged balance sheet) and probably thinks his stock is worth multiple times it's true enterprise value. The creditors are literally going to have to force him out and I don't see him going down without a fight. Chapter 11 would buy some time, but it would be no cakewalk (no pun intended) because it requires a plan of reorganization and the monitoring requirements are very strict. If Henry thinks bond holders are intrusive looking over his shoulder every quarter, wait til he has to deal with a BK trustee.

But I will always love my J-45/Southern Jumbo
 

fronobulax

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It would interesting to listen in on some of those creditor meetings. In a negotiation with rational minds and cool heads, yes something could be worked out to insure the survival of the brand.

My opinion, based upon reading horror stories about large financial investors, and observing behavior via mainstream media, is that the current debt holders really do not care whether the brand or company survives. At this point they have a desired return on their investment and if they can achieve that by forcing the company into liquidation then they are fine. But if you follow deals like these you often find the current debt holder finds a way to pass off the "investment" to someone else. It is almost always the case that the new debt holder sees some value in the company and their willingness to assume the debt is coupled with their strategy for maintaining and rebuilding the company.

So, I expect one of two things (neither of which starts with improving quality). One option is that no one wants Gibson's debt and so the company is essentially broken up and liquidated. In that case I expect some company already in the music business will acquire the assets of the Gibson Guitar component, to include factories and intellectual property but not Henry J. The other option is that the current debt is sold to a new debt holder who has some vision for getting more money operating Gibson as a business. That may or may not include Henry J. and it may or may not continue the brand's expansion beyond the core musical instruments. The new owners almost certainly will have an opinion as to whether the quality problems that some consumers complain about are something to address immediately or not.

As a veer, is there a word for dyslexia that is "reversed" vertically rather than horizontally. I typed "dept" several times when I meant "debt" and may have not corrected them all :) The visual similarity between "b" and "p" is striking.
 

Rayk

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My opinion, based upon reading horror stories about large financial investors, and observing behavior via mainstream media, is that the current debt holders really do not care whether the brand or company survives. At this point they have a desired return on their investment and if they can achieve that by forcing the company into liquidation then they are fine. But if you follow deals like these you often find the current debt holder finds a way to pass off the "investment" to someone else. It is almost always the case that the new debt holder sees some value in the company and their willingness to assume the debt is coupled with their strategy for maintaining and rebuilding the company.

So, I expect one of two things (neither of which starts with improving quality). One option is that no one wants Gibson's debt and so the company is essentially broken up and liquidated. In that case I expect some company already in the music business will acquire the assets of the Gibson Guitar component, to include factories and intellectual property but not Henry J. The other option is that the current debt is sold to a new debt holder who has some vision for getting more money operating Gibson as a business. That may or may not include Henry J. and it may or may not continue the brand's expansion beyond the core musical instruments. The new owners almost certainly will have an opinion as to whether the quality problems that some consumers complain about are something to address immediately or not.

As a veer, is there a word for dyslexia that is "reversed" vertically rather than horizontally. I typed "dept" several times when I meant "debt" and may have not corrected them all :) The visual similarity between "b" and "p" is striking.

Yes sir absolutely right and Blackstone is big player that way so if there involved ?
 
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