JF-30-12 With F-412 Comparison

Rich Cohen

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For those with experience of both models, what are the significant differences, if any, in tone and playability between the JF-30-12 and F-412? I suppose to be a fair comparison, one would have to limit the "F-412s" to production years that the JF-30-12 was made, i.e., 1989 - 2003, which would presume comparing JF-65-12 models.

RC
 

Cougar

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I suppose to be a fair comparison, one would have to limit the "F-412s" to production years that the JF-30-12 was made....

Well, they'd both have to be in roughly the same condition, too. I got a good price on an F412. It was nice, but the saddle was pretty low. As a result, my JF30-12 kicked its butt. I kept the JF30-12 and sold the F412.
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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When I owned my JF-30-12 a good friend owned an F412.
We took turns playing both guitars and agreed that the cosmetics was the only difference that we could find between the two guitars.
They both sounded great but lacked bottom end for my taste.

I would have preferred the F-50R but that guitar was always out of my reach financially.
 

Rich Cohen

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When I owned my JF-30-12 a good friend owned an F412.
We took turns playing both guitars and agreed that the cosmetics was the only difference that we could find between the two guitars.
They both sounded great but lacked bottom end for my taste.

I would have preferred the F-50R but that guitar was always out of my reach financially.

I owned a NH F-412, and heard a lot of bottom end coming out of it, so I don't quite understand what you mean. Maybe the rosie 12ers have more bottom end?
 

wileypickett

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My first Guild was a Westerly JF30 12-string. I knew nothing about the brand before that one, which turned up on my local Craigslist.

The seller started it at a 1000 bucks and dropped it by 100 dollars each week. When it got down to 600, I decided to go check it out. I was flabbergasted. I had two Taylor 12s at the time, one of them their Leo Kottke Signature Model. The Guild sounded better to my ears than either of those, though the Taylor neck profile was more comfortable than the Guild.

I sold one Taylor, kept the LKSM, and began checking out every Guild 12-string I could lay my hands on. I've had more than a dozen over the years and still have seven now, my favorites (all jumbos), including a Westerly F412.

I agree with Taylor Martin Guild -- my JF30 12 and F412 are pretty close sound-wise. There's possibly a bit more volume to the F412, but mine have good bass response (more than my F512, which I sold); both are clear between courses of the strings; and unlike some 12-strings, neither is mushy in the mid-range.

I have since played two other JF30 12s, neither of which sounded as good to me as mine does. So they aren't all created equal!

But I suspect if you were blindfolded and I played the JF30 and F412 back to back, you'd be hard-pressed to tell them apart.

If the price is right, I recommend checking out any JF30s that come your way.
 

Rich Cohen

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My first Guild was a Westerly JF30 12-string. I knew nothing about the brand before that one, which turned up on my local Craigslist.

The seller started it at a 1000 bucks and dropped it by 100 dollars each week. When it got down to 600, I decided to go check it out. I was flabbergasted. I had two Taylor 12s at the time, one of them their Leo Kottke Signature Model. The Guild sounded better to my ears than either of those, though the Taylor neck profile was more comfortable than the Guild.

I sold one Taylor, kept the LKSM, and began checking out every Guild 12-string I could lay my hands on. I've had more than a dozen over the years and still have seven now, my favorites (all jumbos), including a Westerly F412.

I agree with Taylor Martin Guild -- my JF30 12 and F412 are pretty close sound-wise. There's possibly a bit more volume to the F412, but mine have good bass response (more than my F512, which I sold); both are clear between courses of the strings; and unlike some 12-strings, neither is mushy in the mid-range.

I have since played two other JF30 12s, neither of which sounded as good to me as mine does. So they aren't all created equal!

But I suspect if you were blindfolded and I played the JF30 and F412 back to back, you'd be hard-pressed to tell them apart.

If the price is right, I recommend checking out any JF30s that come your way.

Wileypickett,
Can you further characterize the sound qualities of the F 512 you sold, in comparison to the maple 12 strings?
 

chazmo

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Rich, I won't speak for Glenn, but in my own experience with maple vs. rosewood, I have found maple to be a much "dryer" tonewood. I have a solid maple Taylor jumbo 12-string with Sitka top as well as a JF-30-12 (arched, lam. maple). The Taylor is not loud, but has that dry quality. The JF-30-12 is loud and dry. The F-512 is pretty loud and has a very different tonal quality that I'd call "warm." Not that maple is "cold," mind you.

This is probably just drivel when you haven't had both to play side-by-side. I hope you do get that opportunity some day, Rich... The F-512 is my go-to guitar in almost every circumstance. If you ever get a chance to do a side-by-side with two New Hartford F-412/F-512 or F-50/F-50R I think you'll be surprised by the noticeable differences. New Hartford's F-50/F-412 were, IMO, best-of-breed, by the way; absolutely phenomenal instruments.
 

Rich Cohen

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Thanks, Chazmo, I appreciate your "drivel"! I do miss my NH F-412. It rocked the house. My JF-65 is no slouch.
 

wileypickett

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Wileypickett,
Can you further characterize the sound qualities of the F 512 you sold, in comparison to the maple 12 strings?

One of the reasons I like Guilds in general is that they have a sharp attack and a quick decay. I play fingerstyle and like Guilds because you don't get the sound bouncing around inside the guitar and muddying things up. Martins sound great, but many are too reverberant (and expensive!) for my taste.

I loved my F512 -- great "woody" sound, nice bass etc. But with all those extra strings I found that playing fast syncopated pieces, it lost some of that clarity that I like, and I found myself gravitating to the F412 more often than the F512.

So when a friend put out the word he was after a Westerly F512, I decided to make his dream come true! I had somewhat mixed feelings about selling it, but our arrangement is that if he decides to part with it, I have right of first refusal and can buy it back for the same price I sold it for.
 
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