Are Westerlys still from Westerly

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
A question on this. Are they made in mainland China or Taiwan? I thought all of these MIC guitars were coming from mainland China but discovered that many are made in Taipei, Taiwan.

News to me. Could you elaborate on your discovery? My understanding is that the only factory we have identified as making Guilds belongs to Grand Reward Education & Entertainment and is on mainland China. But neither GREE nor Guild will confirm that and it makes good business sense not to. If I don't advertise where my "commodity" guitars are produced then I can change factories as necessary to get the same or better quality at the same or lower price.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,330
Reaction score
6,504
Guild Total
2
Let's set the record straight here, folks. Cordoba didn't start the confusion; Fender did. First, Fender put Guild on the headstock of the MIC GADs. Then, later, Fender named the MIK electrics "Newark Street" when they introduced them. More recently, Fender stopped using the "GAD" moniker and started calling the MIC instruments the 100-series guitars, thus blurring the distinction even more.

I really don't blame CMG at all for capitalizing on some of Guild's history by using the "Westerly" name as part of its cachet for the brand. It's purely marketing. Let's be very clear, though, that CMG didn't break the ice here.

All that said, another thing you guys should know is that Fender is wholly responsible for the design of the MIC guitars. Also, if Tim Shaw (Fender) is to be believed, wood selection and many of the manufacturing aspects were overseen and perhaps impacted by (US) Fender employees.

great post Chaz, and thanks for the encouragement!
Again, I no longer sweat the naming convention "theft" after playing some MIC Guilds. And I agree, CMG has done nothing wrong.
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,216
Reaction score
7,226
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
I'm going to hold out for the Hoboken Collection......preferably with a ghost label.......:tongue-new:

Tommy
They already have, the Newark St. collection. (Newark St. was where the Hoboken plant was.)

guild-starfire-bass-cherry-red-1481006.jpg
 

marius

Member
Joined
May 16, 2017
Messages
291
Reaction score
157
Location
Andover, MN
They even go as far as not putting "China" anywhere on the label itself of the "Westerly Collection" and instead have "Designed in California" on the label of the imports...On the Used Market I have seen the "Westerly Collection" imports selling for close to half of their new price which means when you buy a new import you lose almost half it's value if you go to resell it.TX

FWIW my "Westerly Collection" M-120 does say Made in China on the neck block serial number label. But you are correct it doesn't say it anywhere on the more visible sound hole label. I definitly agree on the used market value aspect; the M-120 is the only guitar I've bought new retail and even if I didn't like it I don't know if I could bring myself to sell it and take that big of a loss. It was however my first all solid guitar and allowed me to get into the market at a price point I could justify at the time.

I can certainly understand why many Guild owners would prefer that the imports didn't carry the Guild name or the Westerly and Newark St. references but for me personally, that Guild M-120 is the reason I started down this slippery Guild slope. I'm still towards the top, and I can't seem to see the bottom.
 

crank

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
862
They really should put that information on their web site. You kind of infer that they are not made in USA only because the Made in USA are differentiated by the Made in USA title.

PS. My Korean Epi hollow body electric is a beautiful and very well made guitar.

Epiphone doesn't really say where their guitars are made on their site either.
 

tommym

Member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
894
Reaction score
315
They already have, the Newark St. collection. (Newark St. was where the Hoboken plant was.).....

WOW....I guess I'll have to hold out for the Pearl Street Collection.....:beaten:

Yeah, they could do limited runs with the old gibson style lip headstock.....:very_drunk:

Tommy
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
A question on this. Are they made in mainland China or Taiwan? I thought all of these MIC guitars were coming from mainland China but discovered that many are made in Taipei, Taiwan.
Just so your question doesn't get lost, the MIC Guild flattops are made in mainland China.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
News to me. Could you elaborate on your discovery? My understanding is that the only factory we have identified as making Guilds belongs to Grand Reward Education & Entertainment and is on mainland China.

I interpreted "all of these MIC guitars" as being generic, or "MIC guitars in general", not specifically the Guilds.
Think it was just a semantic thing.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
FWIW my "Westerly Collection" M-120 does say Made in China on the neck block serial number label.
I thought it had to be on there somewhere because of Country of Origin labeling requirements.
The question's come up before but I didn't remember it ever being answered.
Thanks!
Oh yes, re "getting in at an affordable price point":
It's what made some of us cranky old diehards start calling 'em the "Guild gateway drug", after so many new GAD owners started showing up and then deciding to finally see if the US-builts really were better.
It may be an intangible quality but most of 'em came back reporting somehow they were!
 

Grassdog

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
550
Reaction score
118
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Okay I'm probably too old-school as far as Guild acoustics go (I never met a guitar that came out of the Westerly factory that I didn't like) but it took me a long, long time to warm up to the idea of some Guilds being manufactured in China. That changed when I got the chance to play one of the new F-1512E's which I have to admit kind of blew me away. In terms of playability, fit and finish, tone, and styling, was WAY better than I expected. I kept thinking about that guitar several weeks after I initially played it and I eventually went back and bought it. This is coming from someone who never thought they would ever own an imported Guild. Yeah, I know used ones are going for about 60% of what I paid for it. I winced a bit when I first saw the words "Westerly Collection" on the label, but I got over it. In some ways, I guess these imported Guilds hold true to two of the traditional strong points of the brand, affordability and traditional styling.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
I interpreted "all of these MIC guitars" as being generic, or "MIC guitars in general", not specifically the Guilds.
Think it was just a semantic thing.

Well this is a Guild forum. Consulting with Uncle Google trivially identifies the existence of guitar factories on Taipei so I was assuming the OP knew there were factories in both China and wanted to know which ones made Guilds. Isn't written English wonderful?
 

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,230
Reaction score
1,827
A question on this. Are they made in mainland China or Taiwan? I thought all of these MIC guitars were coming from mainland China but discovered that many are made in Taipei, Taiwan.
To my knowledge, products made in Taiwan will always be labeled as such, rather than indicating China. The two have never been on friendly terms, since China does not recognize Taiwan's independence.

I recall that Yamaha began using a factory in Taiwan back in the early '70s.
 

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,230
Reaction score
1,827
PS. My Korean Epi hollow body electric is a beautiful and very well made guitar.
Epiphone doesn't really say where their guitars are made on their site either.
Throughout recent decades, Epiphone has utilized multiple factories from pacific rim countries, beginning with the end of Kalamazoo production in 1970. They continue to do so, and currently, one of the best of those is an Indonesian factory owned by Samick. However, their finest imports (both acoustics & electrics) have been made by the Terada factory in Japan (often as part of the Epiphone Elitist line).

Epiphone places a little sticker on the back of the headstock or neck heel to indicate country of origin. The stickers are easily removable.
 
Last edited:

Neal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
4,857
Reaction score
1,627
Location
Charlottesville, VA
I will always have mixed emotions about this.

On one hand, I am happy that the brand I first bonded to in the early '70's ("real" Westerly Guilds) endures.

On the other, it fries my gourd that the owners of the brand have decided to associate off-shored guitars with the iconic Westerly, RI Guilds, and to do it in such a sneaky way, with the misleading "California" label.

I have reached the inescapable conclusion that the aim is to hoodwink the unsuspecting.
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,637
Location
New York
the shameful thing is they are actually good guitars, the label should say "proudly made in China" (by human beings with beating hearts...) or something to that extent. they should be proud of thier products, not sneaky and vauge about it.

and to further that point, the vast majority of people going into a guitar store and considering one of these instruments is not thinking anything at all about nitro vs. poly, usa vs. China...their budget is 300-600 not 3K. and they know absolutely nothing. other than "I like this $350 guitar as much or better than that $450 guitar..." we have all been there. dig deep, yes u have. long before LTG haaa

anyway yes, they were doing great just calling it Guild Acoustic Design and those were some damn fine guitars being made in China, at least the ones they sent to Sam Ash on Long Island.

even still, i'm starting to think the USA factory is the major
concern for Guild right now, not the entry level market. I just don't see Guild/Oxnard lasting any longer than New Hartford did. I hope they do, of course. they are off to a bumpy start though.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
and to further that point, the vast majority of people going into a guitar store and considering one of these instruments is not thinking anything at all about nitro vs. poly, usa vs. China...their budget is 300-600 not 3K. and they know absolutely nothing. other than "I like this $350 guitar as much or better than that $450 guitar..." we have all been there. dig deep, yes u have. long before LTG haaa
I agree 100%.
I was 50 frickin' years old and had been playing since I was 12 and still knew literally nothing except that the primary reason I bought a new American built guitar is I wanted an instrument that would be worth re-fretting when the time came.
That was the only thing I knew happened to 'em from a maintenance perspective. That, and I liked sealed tuners because sand wouldn't get in 'em at the beach. Seriously. (Busking in Santa Cruz)

anyway yes, they were doing great just calling it Guild Acoustic Design and those were some damn fine guitars being made in China, at least the ones they sent to Sam Ash on Long Island.
OK I'm willing to allow that Cordoba was entirely justified in wanting to re-image that line (I just wish they'd used a different image), and it's even possible that they didn't actually buy that name.
Think it was actually owned by Fender, not Guild, and they could create the "GAD" line because they owned the rights to the Guild name and brand.
But remember (and I don't mean precisely you, Mav, just anybody who didn't know or forgot) the GAD line had no connection to Guild USA beyond the name.
Sure the the designs were Guild intellectual property like blueprints that Fender owned through owning Guild , but G-USA had absolutely nothing to do with production. Never touched 'em. Never made parts for 'em.
Fender even handled all the warehousing/ distribution themselves and even broke 'em out as a different brand when it came to dealer franchises.
Each line had their own buy quota, they didn't combine.
Anyway, while writing that I started to suspect that Cordoba already knew they intended to rebrand the MIC's and wouldn't have bought the GAD name anyway.
even still, i'm starting to think the USA factory is the major
concern for Guild right now, not the entry level market. I just don't see Guild/Oxnard lasting any longer than New Hartford did. I hope they do, of course. they are off to a bumpy start though.
Yep. I hope it's just that our perspective is narrowed by our previous knowledge of the brand identity and core values (solid wood tops, NCL finish, dovetail neck joint, hide glue construction) and that they understand what a new buyer wants better than we do.
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,216
Reaction score
7,226
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
OK I'm willing to allow that Cordoba was entirely justified in wanting to re-image that line (I just wish they'd used a different image), and it's even possible that they didn't actually buy that name.
Think it was actually owned by Fender, not Guild, and they could create the "GAD" line because they owned the rights to the Guild name and brand.
.....
Anyway, while writing that I started to suspect that Cordoba already knew they intended to rebrand the MIC's and wouldn't have bought the GAD name anyway.
Doesn’t Gary own the GAD brand?:victorious:
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,637
Location
New York
GAD was part of the Guild brand, just like Newark Street. im sure that was part of the package. you may be overthinking this one Al, who knows. either way, that was the perfect name...and "the Westerly Collection, designed in California"...is about as disgraceful as it gets- niether Rhode Island nor California should be mentioned. Guild designed- not Guild counterfeited!
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
GAD was part of the Guild brand, just like Newark Street. im sure that was part of the package. you may be overthinking this one Al, who knows. either way, that was the perfect name...and "the Westerly Collection, designed in California"...is about as disgraceful as it gets- niether Rhode Island nor California should be mentioned. Guild designed- not Guild counterfeited!

I have seen many comparable labels on other consumer products. A company that wants to emphasize its US origins and deal with the reality that the product is not made in the USA will adopt such language. It is a judgement call whether a consumer's failure to heed the fine print makes the consumer negligent ("Buyer Beware") or the company sneaky and misleading or somewhere in the middle.

Country of origin discussions on LTG tend to boil down to politically based opinions (support "my" economy) or product quality. Discussions about the latter inevitably generate a lot of smoke but no fire because some people think the quality is a function of the target price and other people think it is a function of the local work force and (factory) local environmental regulations.

My memory is shot but I don't see much difference between this and how Maderia, Burnside, D'Armond, Sigma or Squier were marketed. In all cases the parent company made it clear that the product was different from the flagship line and expected the consumer to do the research if there was anything that mattered to the besides price.

It's not Guild's fault that there are people who sell a guitar but not make it initially clear whether it is a Westerly or a Westerly Collection. In some sense Guild does not care. How much money goes to Cordoba when a real Westerly, made in Rhode Island, gets sold?

It's getting cold. I need to dismantle my soapbox and throw it on the fire.
 
Top