Your action height .

Rayk

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I asked the question about action in my NGD thread anyway Al sent along some specs of 5/64 and 6/64 or 3/32nd of an inch or .093

After thinking about it I’m kind of having a hard time with that , why ? because my head is broke and it seems like that’s pretty amazing action .

It was mentioned some thing that’s high . Now I have ask what kind of music are you folks playing ? Lol ok I’m just funning :)

My head says your fret board has to be spot on and not many truly meet spot on or I’m on the crazy train again . Me head “ me “ not being misspelled lol says the strings wave form would be dang close to fretting out at least acoustically on the low side , you might not hear plugged in though I don’t know .

I need that string height gauge thingy lol
Anyway so if you can might post some of your action heights at the 12th fret and if you get any fret buzz when you start rocking out it might be much so listen close.

Maybe even some details about the trueness or level of your finger board as well if possible , any rolling hills or valleys 😁

Thanks :)
 

adorshki

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I asked the question about action in my NGD thread anyway Al sent along some specs of 5/64 and 6/64 or 3/32nd of an inch or .093

After thinking about it I’m kind of having a hard time with that , why ? because my head is broke and it seems like that’s pretty amazing action .

It was mentioned some thing that’s high . Now I have ask what kind of music are you folks playing ? Lol ok I’m just funning :)

My head says your fret board has to be spot on and not many truly meet spot on or I’m on the crazy train again . Me head “ me “ not being misspelled lol says the strings wave form would be dang close to fretting out at least acoustically on the low side , you might not hear plugged in though I don’t know .

Maybe even some details about the trueness or level of your finger board as well if possible , any rolling hills or valleys ��

Thanks :)

All 3 of mine came out of the box properly set up.
NO truss adjustments needed.
All of 'em in the factory set-up range.
Because I have a pretty heavy hand and it was even heavier when I got my D25, that height was perfect for hard strumming with no buzz, and also allows very clear hammers and roll-offs.
I suspect they did set it at the absolute limit of height that still gave good intonation, knowing it could easily be taken down.
There were no waves/humps/twisting in any of my 3 necks.
"Made to be played" is all about necks in my opinion and that was what actually sold me on my D25.
One thing Guild spent a lot of time on was necks: 39 separate operations on a D55 neck according to that same Guild Gallery I cited earlier, and in late Westerly at least, each step was vetted by the next guy in line and sent back for re-work if needed.
I would also offer that they let fretboard blanks dry long enough that they didn't warp later, and in general that there was so much hand-labor going on compared to the "big boys" and mass factory builds that they did in fact produce an exremely high percentage of "sopt-on" necks.
The other detail that's often left out of this kind of discussion is nut slot depth, Guild was just as clean and precise there as everywhere else.

Me head “ me “ not being misspelled lol says the strings wave form would be dang close to fretting out at least acoustically on the low side , you might not hear plugged in though I don’t know .
Surely you haven't forgotten that's what relief is for? The first time I ever saw it was when I was sighting down the neck of the '25. I thought it was supposed to be perfectly flat and I was only looking for twist...of course I didn't find any, but that's when I first started realizing there was more to guitars than I'd learned in my first 25 years of playing.....
:friendly_wink:
 
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adorshki

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Oh, one more thing:
Guild actually stopped publishing an action height spec about a year into New Hartford production.
It had been left up on the website from Corona all the way through Tacoma but as Fender updated it during early New Hartford period they took out it out of the tech support section one weekend and never replaced it.
That was around the time we saw the first call on what some folks believed were abnormally low saddles on the new builds, in marketing photos.
That started discussion about whether those short saddles were compensated for by being mounted in taller bridges, which could have been a by-product of the top radius change and the move to medium strings on the dreadnoughts and jumbos.
Remember that 5-6/64th spec was based on .012 lights being installed during late Westerly.
I remember one member who had an NH 12-string and mentioned he liked to get his action WAAY down, like about 1/16 IIRC.
And then complained he couldn't lower the saddle enough to get there and asked Fender to warranty work it.
Fender's authorized shop gave 'im a hack-job bridge shave and when he asked 'em to fix that he got put on hold for quite a while until they finally gave him a replacement and justified that by saying the guitar did in fact need a neck reset at 2 years old.
I challenged him a couple of times that he was trying to adjust the guitar to an action height outside their set-up specs and therefore they shouldn't be obligated to fix the bridge shave but they relented in the end.
One flaw in my argument at the time was that they'd already dropped the set-up height spec by then.
I never really saw anything concrete from Guild explaining why.
I've since concluded that during the first couple of years in New Hartford they still hadn't quite sorted out the optimum neckset angles and bridge heights to offer a little bit lower action to compensate for the medium strings, or at least hadn't found the right combination that yielded consistent enough results to be used as a "production formula", and just tweaked every individual unit to its ideal.
From all reports from happy owners they must have got it pretty well down by '12 or so but still never got around to publishing an action height spec before the shutdown.
 
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Rayk

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All 3 of mine came out of the box properly set up.
NO truss adjustments needed.
All of 'em in the factory set-up range.
Because I have a pretty heavy hand and it was even heavier when I got my D25, that height was perfect for hard strumming with no buzz, and also allows very clear hammers and roll-offs.
I suspect they did set it at the absolute limit of height that still gave good intonation, knowing it could easily be taken down.
There were no waves/humps/twisting in any of my 3 necks.
"Made to be played" is all about necks in my opinion and that was what actually sold me on my D25.
One thing Guild spent a lot of time on was necks: 39 separate operations on a D55 neck according to that same Guild Gallery I cited earlier, and in late Westerly at least, each step was vetted by the next guy in line and sent back for re-work if needed.
I would also offer that they let fretboard blanks dry long enough that they didn't warp later, and in general that there was so much hand-labor going on compared to the "big boys" and mass factory builds that they did in fact produce an exremely high percentage of "sopt-on" necks.
The other detail that's often left out of this kind of discussion is nut slot depth, Guild was just as clean and precise there as everywhere else.


Surely you haven't forgotten that's what relief is for? The first time I ever saw it was when I was sighting down the neck of the '25. I thought it was supposed to be perfectly flat and I was only looking for twist...of course I didn't find any, but that's when I first started realizing there was more to guitars than I'd learned in my first 25 years of playing.....
:friendly_wink:

I hear ya but I’m still curious about the numbers as for relief ? my top guitars are flat if there’s is relief you can’t see it or maybe I can’t see it . Lol

Now in my case there can be some neck angle movement due to age but saddle adjust should compensate but I digress .
 

GardMan

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3/32" (6/64" or 0.094") (6th string 12th fret) is a often cited as "medium" action... but individual tastes vary. A finger style player might consider that way high, and shoot for 4 or 5/64"... while a hard picking blue grass player might go as high as 8/64" (0.125").

I prefer my action at about 0.105" - 0.110", which is about 6.7 to 7/64". That works for my mix of modest strumming/rhythm and simple fingerpicking. I shoot for 0.006-0.012" relief. But, another important determinant of how easily a guitar plays is action at the nut... or the height of the strings above the 1st fret. Frank Ford has an article on frets.com, but I actually set mine a bit lower than that for the treble strings.
 

adorshki

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I hear ya but I’m still curious about the numbers as for relief ? my top guitars are flat if there’s is relief you can’t see it or maybe I can’t see it . Lol
Never saw a relief spec from Guild.
I bow to Gardman's comments there, as well as his comment about the traditional interpretation of 6/64 as "medium" action. Actually that's kind of comforting to me and even explains the NH D55 prototype that Neal sold to John W63's set-up at 8/64... which shocked me at the time
Now in my case there can be some neck angle movement due to age but saddle adjust should compensate but I digress .
You'n every other old cowboy on the range.
:glee:
 

dreadnut

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The way I understand it, the necks have "camber," like a ski, and this is what the truss rod adjusts.
 

ClydeTower

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I hear ya but I’m still curious about the numbers as for relief ? my top guitars are flat if there’s is relief you can’t see it or maybe I can’t see it .

I was looking for the same thing, just to know how my D55 action height and relief compared to factory specs. What I do know is my D55's action is 4/64 (0.0625) on low E and high e at the 12th fret, which is the lowest action of any of my guitars including all of my Taylors. And there is zero buzzing even when I dig in and strum hard which is quite incredible. What's even more incredible is the D55 is the only guitar I own that did not need a set-up. All my Taylors needed to have the saddles sanded down and have custom bone nuts. My Taylor dread even had a neck reset and fret leveling to get the action down to 5/64.

What is also quite interesting is that my D55 has the most relief in the neck out of all my guitars. Most of them are flat with barely any relief. I can't wrap my head around it, Taylors are known for there playability and low action, yet my D55 blows them out of the water. How did the guys at New Hartord pull this off?
 

Neal

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I used to worship at the alter of low action.

As I played more, and my fingers got stronger, I started to appreciate 7/64 or even 8/64. I have a few that are close to 10/64 and they are very playable if I do not venture too far up the neck, and especially when I combine fretting with slide.

I feel that I get more volume, better tone and less buzz with higher action.
 

ClydeTower

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I used to worship at the alter of low action.

As I played more, and my fingers got stronger, I started to appreciate 7/64 or even 8/64. I have a few that are close to 10/64 and they are very playable if I do not venture too far up the neck, and especially when I combine fretting with slide.

I feel that I get more volume, better tone and less buzz with higher action.

It is true that higher action will usually generate more volume. In the end, action height is one part of the equation. along with plectrum thickness/material, string gauge and tension, technique, etc. Its always a balancing act.
I like to play up the neck and like a fast neck for flat picking and fingerstyle, so "electric like" action pretty much floats my boat, and the D55 delivers this, at least for my taste.
 

davismanLV

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The height of my action tonight was when that hot little bartender, Tanner, came in and jumped up on my lap at Happy Hour and said, "I'm SO UPSET about the game yesterday..... thank GOD you guys are here!" and then he counted his bank and served me more wine. That was the height of my action.

Oh, that's not what you're talking about, is it??

AQ5eSS.jpg
 

Rayk

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The height of my action tonight was when that hot little bartender, Tanner, came in and jumped up on my lap at Happy Hour and said, "I'm SO UPSET about the game yesterday..... thank GOD you guys are here!" and then he counted his bank and served me more wine. That was the height of my action.

Oh, that's not what you're talking about, is it??

AQ5eSS.jpg

Tanner huh ? No that was not what I was talking about . Lol
 

Cougar

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A timely thread - I just took in my JF30-12 for a setup. The action was too low, which is much better than being too high, right? (Tom's post notwithstanding :tiger:) Action was fine up around the cowboy chords, but up the neck near the 12th fret, the high E strings were not just buzzing, they were dead by hitting the higher frets. My old luthier retired or died or something - he closed up shop anyway - so I'm trying a new place - Guitar Czar. Seems like a pro outfit. We'll see how they do....
 

GardMan

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A timely thread - I just took in my JF30-12 for a setup. The action was too low, which is much better than being too high, right? (Tom's post notwithstanding :tiger:) Action was fine up around the cowboy chords, but up the neck near the 12th fret, the high E strings were not just buzzing, they were dead by hitting the higher frets. My old luthier retired or died or something - he closed up shop anyway - so I'm trying a new place - Guitar Czar. Seems like a pro outfit. We'll see how they do....
Sounds like you are in SLC... was your old tech Tom Midlin at Local Music? I think he just moved his shop to State or Main St south of 2100 South. Havne't gone by to check, but that is what I heard. I've not used the folks at Guitar Czar... I did stop into the shop several years back, and noted they were a Guild dealer.
 

Westerly Wood

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I like a little buzz, just a tad. I strum heavy, but my finger pads still need a lower action than I would like. I got my Br set up for light guage strings, works well. I can play long and again, I get very little buzz. However, I doubt a bluegrass player would want the action the Br has.

I hear Martins come from the factory with high action. I wish I had a good instrument to measure the action for ya Ray, I will look around in the shed outside to see if I got a caliper or whatever I need to get a decent measurement.

My ongoing issue right now, my pet peeve or 1st world problem with my Guild dread is the high E string. the .12 is so thin, it tends to get some buzz at 12th fret. No matter the truss adj I do to give more relief, there appears to be an issue with the fret. I bet a medium gauge E would not buzz up there. But a .13 just cuts into my finger pads too much. Again, I live with it, no biggie, I am not soloing up there much anymore.
 

swiveltung

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Here's a couple of nearby examples from my herd. This distance is under the string to top of the fret at the 12th fret:
Guild F20: .098 on low E string, .070 on hi E string, neck relief with capo at fret 1 and fretted at fret 15 is eyeballed at ~.005
Gibson LG2: .122 on low E string, .080 on hi E string, neck relief with capo at fret 1 and fretted at fret 15 is eyeballed at ~.008

I think the Guild is a touch low for best sound but not bad.
Back in Engineering school and in Aerospace training we learned you can readily discern .005" or less.
 
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Rayk

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I like seeing numbers so thanks for that folks .

I just ordered a height gauge and straight edge should have them by end of week this should make things a tad easier on my end . 😁
 

swiveltung

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A good set of drills from .188 down to .062 works well to measure under strings.
 
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Cougar

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Sounds like you are in SLC... was your old tech Tom Midlin at Local Music?

Right on both counts. Tom's a great guy - spent many an hour in his old shop shootin' the breeze, then noticed the old shop was cleared out. (Well, it needed to be! You could barely walk in the place for all the junky instruments!) Good to hear he apparently just moved. I'll have to check into that.

I'd noticed you were up at the U. Some big shot. :tiger: My prof wife just early-retired from there. I'm semi-retired, working for (plaintiff atty) Bob Sykes downtown a few days a week. You may have occasionally seen him on the news if you watch local. He takes a lot of newsworthy cases....

Guitar Czar looks like a decent repair place. They've got some nice guitars, too. None better than my JF30-12 though. :encouragement:
 

GardMan

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I'd noticed you were up at the U. Some big shot. :tiger:
No big shot... just a lowly Prof teaching Cell Biology to 500+ students per year. Couple more years before I retire, then I'll have more time, but less $$$...

I used to take each Guild I purchased to Tom for a new nut/saddle/setup when it came in... but when I got to 10, I decided I should learn to do it myself. So I spent $300 on tools at StewMac, and learned to make nuts and saddles. I have almost broke even by now...

I take one of my Guild DV-7Xs to Thursday night jam at Wasatch Music (~9400 S 700 East) 2-3 times a month. Music is mostly bluegrass, but pretty much anything goes (I play cowboy and folk stuff). You should stop by some Thursday (PM me, and I'll let you know f I am going that week)...

Sorry for the veer...
 
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