Indian Rosewood Tree

Rich Cohen

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My wife and I are leading a group of students to South India for a fourteen day study abroad tour. We are professors at the University of Virginia. South India is not only famous for its spices (black pepper, cardamom, cinnamon, nutmeg,clove, allspice, etc.) but also tea and coffee. In addition, the Indian rosewood tree grows in South India. Here is a picture of a rosewood tree on the grounds of the hotel at which we're staying.

https://imgur.com/a/jmkhf
https://imgur.com/a/LDdgx
 
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poser

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Neatl Thanks for the photo. That's and ambitious effort to take a group of students to south India. Good for you. I'm sure it's an experience they will never forget.
 

walrus

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I am also a college professor, but have never taken students on a trip like that - have fun! Take a photo of yourself in front of the tree for us!

walrus
 

Kitarkus

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Thanks for posting this Rich...neat to see! I'd anticipated a tree with a wider trunk?...or is that a typically sized Indian Rosewood tree? Have fun on what sounds like an excellent adventure.
 

Stuball48

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Have a great trip. Taught high school 40 years and over a 1000 trips with students as a head basketball and baseball coach. Most every trip was a joy--take away the final score. Lots of great young people!
 

adorshki

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Thanks for posting this Rich...neat to see! I'd anticipated a tree with a wider trunk?...or is that a typically sized Indian Rosewood tree? Have fun on what sounds like an excellent adventure.
OLD growth would be, but it's protected now:
17YT_Rosewood%20tree%202.jpg


From here:
http://www.thehindu.com/features/kids/rosewood-marvel/article6119251.ece
 

marcellis

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That could be a few Guilds there...

More likely it will be one Chinese bedroom furniture set or a couple of Chinese caskets.
The Chinese furniture industry uses a lot more Rosewood than we westerners with our
puny little guitars, fretboards and bridges.
 
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adorshki

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More likely it will be one Chinese bedroom furniture set or a couple of Chinese caskets.
The Chinese furniture industry uses a lot more Rosewood than we westerners with our
puny little guitars, fretboards and bridges.
As I understand it, old growth EIR like that's heavily protected/regulated now, that's why they started looking to the African alternatives.
And why all the remaining unlisted Rosewoods got listed en masse last January.
The real problem now is protecting THAT stuff from corrupted governments in their native countries.
It's why CITES regs also hold buyers of wood responsible for vetting its source.
EIR's farmed all over the place now, it just doesn't get as big as that pic I posted, or at least, that's not why the farmers are in the business.
 

marcellis

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As I understand it, old growth EIR like that's heavily protected/regulated now, that's why they started looking to the African alternatives.
And why all the remaining unlisted Rosewoods got listed en masse last January.
The real problem now is protecting THAT stuff from corrupted governments in their native countries.
It's why CITES regs also hold buyers of wood responsible for vetting its source.
EIR's farmed all over the place now, it just doesn't get as big as that pic I posted, or at least, that's not why the farmers are in the business.

I've spent a lot of time in and around the hardwood forests of Cambodia and Vietnam.
And I've spent several months in China.

China is NOT being deterred by CITES. Neither are the poverty-stricken loggers or the corrupt government officials who allow the trees to be harvested in SE Asian forests.

The log trucks are still clogging the highways of SE Asia. You can even buy the stuff in States.
But heaven help some musician who's just trying to bring a guitar home - even if it's a name brand
he or she bought in the US.
 
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adorshki

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I've spent a lot of time in and around the hardwood forests of Cambodia and Vietnam.
And I've spent several months in China.
China is NOT being deterred by CITES.

Marc, I know you've spent much time over there, and I don't dispute your first-hand reports, and I'm not saying China's deterred by CITES, although I could cite other articles that indicate they're at least paying lip service to the convention, they are after all a signatory.
The point of those articles, and what I was getting at, was that their old preferred EIR sources are now in such short supply or protected (in India for example as the link I posted explains), that they've been forced to find other sources to meet that demand.
One can only assume that if that piece of furniture can be bought in the states, then there is a trail of CITES-compliance documents to verify its conformance, even if they're forged.
if it's not in compliance, the seller's just playing Russian Roulette with the same pistol that took down Lumber Liquidators only a couple of years ago:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/lumb...nmental-crimes-and-agrees-pay-more-13-million

From that link:
"Virginia-based hardwood flooring retailer Lumber Liquidators Inc. pleaded guilty today in federal court in Norfolk, Virginia, to environmental crimes related to its illegal importation of hardwood flooring, much of which was manufactured in China from timber that had been illegally logged in far eastern Russia"
and:
"...the Lacey Act, which makes it a crime to import timber that was taken in violation of the laws of a foreign country and to transport falsely-labeled timber across international borders into the United States....
This is the first felony conviction related to the import or use of illegal timber and the largest criminal fine ever under the Lacey Act."
 

chazmo

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I am not surprised in the least to hear Marc's report. It is sad, but it's by no means limited to Asian forestry. The socio-economic forces of banning or limiting trade are serious and widely felt.

I think the musical instrument business is in a very difficult situation on the subject of restricted woods. It's really a case of "everybody else" making it hard for the music industry. The construction and furniture industries are the primary consumers of this wood, and forgetting exports for the moment, an international treaty has no teeth on home-market consumption. Without getting into geo-politics, I think the conundrum for the music instrument business is this... As only a bit player in the consumption of these woods, they have to follow import/export restrictions to the letter or face penalties. But, even more to the point is that they have to set an example.

I don't know, just some random thoughts for the day. I'm a little worried that this thread is going to get political, but let's try to resist going over that cliff, 'm'K?
 

chazmo

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Oh, I did have one related comment.... Bob Taylor and his partners bought the primary loggers/distributors of ebony a few years ago and they are trying to do something responsible in that area. I read all about it in Wood and Steel years ago, and I wonder how it's going. The thing about all that is that the guitar industry has an "out" in that murky wood issue -- namely, ebony is sitting on the ground in those forests only because it is not pure-black. All the guitar business has to do is accept some light-color figuring in ebony to have an enormous supply of the stuff available. The furniture and construction businesses have left a gold mine of that stuff sitting on the ground. No problem. I like striped ebony better than flat-black anyway!!! :)

I wish I had some links to point people to on that subject. It was all in Taylor's magazine and in videos that I watched. Absolutely fascinating.
 

richardp69

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Oh, I did have one related comment.... Bob Taylor and his partners bought the primary loggers/distributors of ebony a few years ago and they are trying to do something responsible in that area. I read all about it in Wood and Steel years ago, and I wonder how it's going. The thing about all that is that the guitar industry has an "out" in that murky wood issue -- namely, ebony is sitting on the ground in those forests only because it is not pure-black. All the guitar business has to do is accept some light-color figuring in ebony to have an enormous supply of the stuff available. The furniture and construction businesses have left a gold mine of that stuff sitting on the ground. No problem. I like striped ebony better than flat-black anyway!!! :)

I wish I had some links to point people to on that subject. It was all in Taylor's magazine and in videos that I watched. Absolutely fascinating.

I'm with you. I think the striped Ebony is stunning and much prefer it over the solid black.
 

davismanLV

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Charlie, I read that article in Wood & Steel a few years back and also watched a video Bob Taylor did about responsible wood harvesting. Come to find out, only 1 in 10 trees harvested were the all solid-black ebony preferred and the ones that were NOT, were left lying on the forest floor! Not even worth the trouble to move, because people won't pay top dollar for them!! I think we're moving away from that now in the guitar industry, but change takes time.

Sad to see, because if we wreck the planet, as far as I know, there is no Plan B.

Not sure if this is the same video you were mentioning, but it's a good one!!

 
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