A great article about volume vs. sustain from Taylor......

It's very short and to the point. It made me think about the two different things.....

Article HERE.

Yeah, good stuff! Thanks for the link!

Great article Tom and as I was reading, a thought came waltzing through my mind. Is there a "specific" length of time each player must have on "sustain" or is all sustain after a certain length of time of no musical value--just bragging rights?

Yes, that was interesting and concise! Thanks!

walrus

Great article indeed.

Stuball48 said:

Great article Tom and as I was reading, a thought came waltzing through my mind. Is there a "specific" length of time each player must have on "sustain" or is all sustain after a certain length of time of no musical value--just bragging rights?

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Like so many things, it depends.

In general, any sustain that is so long that in interferes with, rather than enhances, what comes next is too long. But there are performances where that is exactly what is wanted - the notes being sustained and decaying are expected to interact with the ones being played. I hear it most often with duets. A solo guitarist who wanted that effect would probably be using a looper.

Echo and reverberation are not exactly sustain, but choral music that was written to be performed in large spaces, such as the Great Cathedrals, often uses the presence of both "active" and "passive" sound to good effect.

Yeah, that's interesting. You would think by now the guitar industry would have electronic tools to define volume and sustain. Even for electric guitars. Wouldnt it be nice if every guitar for sale out there had numbers to refer to? Especially in these days of buying most everything on line. like:
Sustain: 7.8
Volume: 8.5
I'm visualizing a small handheld device you place on the guitar top to measure. Volume ought to be easy with a very sensitive Db meter. I would think sustain is very doable as a matter of volume/length of time function.
I have a feeling the makers wouldnt want to do this because there are many many "duds" out there. It's amazing how 2 different stratocasters, for instance, can be. One is dead wood and the other tickles your ribs when playing. I always test electric guitars unplugged. Electronics can be changed, but you just cant change the particular piece of wood.
I'm also surprised Taylor used Les Paul's as an example of sustain in that article. Sure plugged in some can be great. But not plugged in every LP I've had has been "dead wood" compared with Stratocasters. Maybe I haven't had enough LP's! I have 2 strats and both are immensely sustaining unplugged... which is why they were kept over others.

swiveltung said:

Yeah, that's interesting. You would think by now the guitar industry would have electronic tools to define volume and sustain.

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I'm thinking the effort to define a standard and then measure to it is huge compared to the benefit. How far away is the decibel meter? Do I measure a strum or single notes or what? Do I derive all the information from the same measurement? If I don't have a laboratory created strum and plucker, how do i account for the differences in players? String gauge?

I do think the measurement is pretty cool and it would be a fun little "science" project for someone and their stable. But I can't see manufacturers defining a methodology and then implementing it. While the duds may be a factor I suspect the cost to make the measurement would be a good reason not to.

A thing I notice with my '73 S-100 is that the initial note attack decays quickly to a relatively low sustain volume. But the notes then sustain as long as with any other SG-ish electric I've owned. This is a volume envelope more like a Jazzmaster's than a typical set neck guitar, and probably why I nearly always use this S-100 with both pickups on out of phase. (If you play with the volume controls there are loads of cool OOP sounds to be had. Running both pickups full out: ugghh.) Because of this character the guitar really punches through effects that would wash out lotsa bigger- & bolder-sounding instruments. I can even play weird chords through a fuzz without 'em turning into mush.

With flattop acoustics the little Martin 0-15 I had restored in 2016 has the punchiest attack. The Gibson L-50 archtop has the most overall initial punch. But all my acoustics seem to sustain about the same amount.

-Dave-

The easiest way to think about this is that the strings will put a given amount of energy into the top (based on gauge, scale length, string construction, etc.). That top can release the energy quickly (more volume, less sustain), or more gradually (lower volume, longer sustain). The rate at which the guitar releases the energy has a ton of factors affecting it (so many that I will not list them all, and I don't know that I would get them all anyway). Suffice it to say that this is a big part of what the guitar design is about.

The type of music to be played also determines the ideal volume/sustain is desriable. Some music (think a lot of very rapidly played fingerstyle notes, or gypsy jazz, some types of bluegrass) would best be served by a higher volume guitar (and by extension, shorter sustain) type of guitar, so that the notes die off quicker because there are a lot of notes coming in a short period of time. Folk music, or more contemplative music, may be best played on a lower volume, longer sustain guitar.

fronobulax said:

I'm thinking the effort to define a standard and then measure to it is huge compared to the benefit. How far away is the decibel meter? Do I measure a strum or single notes or what? Do I derive all the information from the same measurement? If I don't have a laboratory created strum and plucker, how do i account for the differences in players? String gauge?

I do think the measurement is pretty cool and it would be a fun little "science" project for someone and their stable. But I can't see manufacturers defining a methodology and then implementing it. While the duds may be a factor I suspect the cost to make the measurement would be a good reason not to.

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Yeah, the standard for the picking, strumming or whatever interaction with the strings is the hardest part I suppose. Speakers are rated with standards, so I dont think using standards in general is a big roadblock. A device held on the guitar top, with a soft hammer (piano type hammer) to strike a string might work.