Early Guild M20 - price, serial number, date, and comparison to new US made M-20?

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Hi all,
I had a 1965 M-20 a few years ago, sold it due to an unfortunate finance situation, and have been looking for a vintage M-20 since. I bought a 1973 D-25 in the meantime, and while I really like it, it's just not the same as the M-20. I recently came across a beautiful vintage Guild M-20 at my local guitar store. Just jaw dropping. My 1965 was heavily worn when I got it, conversely, the guitar at my local shop appears to have been in a time capsule for the last 60 years. It looks, sounds, and plays like pure magic. Case is original and not worn.

I know that Guild didn't always keep perfect serial number records pre-1960. The serial number on this guitar is 1003 (which the Guild chart indicates that this number was used in 1953) but it has the Ghost Label (which was used in 1959). With that, I have a few questions:

1) Should I be concerned about the seemingly 1953 serial number on a ghost label? Seems like a silly question, but I just want to cover my bases. I assume with the ghost label it has to be a 1959.

2) What was the first year that Guild produced the M-20? I can't seem to find consistent information on this.

3) How do the new US M-20's compare to the old ones? I've played both the new and old M-20's, and really liked them both, but there were months in between playing the old M-20 and the new US one.


It's a beautiful instrument. I shake when I see and play it. However, the price tag is steep: $2500. It really does look like it went from the production line directly into a time capsule; the epitome of "mint" condition. All this does not change the fact that $2500 is a lot of money, especially when the new US made M-20's are $1200ish. I'll for sure end up going for this old M-20 or one of the new ones either way. Any input/advice/feedback is appreciated.

Thanks everyone!
-Jeremy
 

Stuball48

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Welcome to LTG and there will be folks come around who will give you your asked for information. Sounds like you are leaning - no make that fallen in love with the old one. Nothing worse than playing a guitar and wishing you had bought the other one.
 

AcornHouse

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Welcome Jeremy!

1. I’m betting that there is a number missing from your serial number. As you said, the ghost label indicates a ‘59 or ‘60. A pic will help.

2. Hans will have to clarify the start date for the M-20s, since he doesn’t give the date in his book. If they started at the same time as the F-20s, then it would be ‘56, but I’m betting they started later.

3. You probably have more insight about new vs. old, having played both. As you probably know, the specs are VERY different, with the new ones having the much wider 1-3/4” nut width.

Unless you’re overseas, $2500 is WAY too high! They are available starting at $1200 from what I’ve seen lately; and yes, that’s the vintage ones. Just shop around.
 
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Thanks for the warm welcome and the information!

My wife snapped a quick picture with me playing it while we were in the store. By chance, the picture she took gives a direct view of the label. It's a bit grainy, but I zoomed in on it- don't know if this helps. I'm not the most tech-savy, but I will try to post them once I figure out how.

I was afraid about the price. I'm about 90 miles outside of Seattle, no overseas/shipping/customs. I sold my beat up 1965 for $900, so it didn't seem impossible that it might be worth that much. But I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who had the sticker shock at that number.
 

Kitarkus

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Welcome! Sorry that I cannot help you with serial numbers and period correct labels. Some knowledgeable folks will come along and assist you with that.

I am someone who has been on a long search for quality M20/F20's. It appears that you have stumbled across quite a rare example of that guitar...and at your local guitar store....crazy! It isn't often that you find a ghost label M-20...and it is entirely rare to find one that comes anywhere close to resembling a mint condition...that you can play/touch/hear/feel locally. There are certainly less expensive examples of vintage M-20's...although most have abundant cosmetic imperfections and some with potential functional issues (neck angle, bridge lift etc. etc) are common on these old guitars. $2500 is imo the absolute highest conceivable price for that guitar. They have it priced for someone who really wants THAT guitar and cannot find a good example. I wouldn't be surprised to find a few people who would pay that amount knowing full well that it is hard to find such a good one. I recently found one in very good/excellent condition for about $800 in need of about $600 worth of work....and I thought that was an excellent 'deal'. If the example that you found needs no repairs and is truly mint/near mint...it is certainly worth more than my example (was)....seems to be collector's grade....and is a ghost label atop it all. Is $2500 a lot for that guitar....yes. I don't predict that a lot of people will be beating down your local guitar store's door to line up to buy that guitar for $2500....but a few died in the wool Guild people with M-20 lust will surely be tempted.

Remember....I can buy a brand new fully warrantied Martin 000-28 with full warranty delivered to my door for $2200. A 000-15 for about $1200 brand new. $2500 is a lot for that ghost label M-20....but $2500 is peanuts for a guitar that makes you "shake" when you play it. It sounds like you are going to be awfully disappointed should you not be able to own that little M-20 that you found...how much is that worth to you?

You need to get some story about the guitar. Has it been refurbished?.....refinished?.....had a neck reset?....are the frets worn?...replaced?....fretboard wear? It would be like finding a holy grail to find a mint 50's or 60's M-20 that had never been played AND which had perfect neck to body geometry without having work done previously. A very rare bird indeed.

Hi all,
I had a 1965 M-20 a few years ago, sold it due to an unfortunate finance situation, and have been looking for a vintage M-20 since. I bought a 1973 D-25 in the meantime, and while I really like it, it's just not the same as the M-20. I recently came across a beautiful vintage Guild M-20 at my local guitar store. Just jaw dropping. My 1965 was heavily worn when I got it, conversely, the guitar at my local shop appears to have been in a time capsule for the last 60 years. It looks, sounds, and plays like pure magic. Case is original and not worn.

I know that Guild didn't always keep perfect serial number records pre-1960. The serial number on this guitar is 1003 (which the Guild chart indicates that this number was used in 1953) but it has the Ghost Label (which was used in 1959). With that, I have a few questions:

1) Should I be concerned about the seemingly 1953 serial number on a ghost label? Seems like a silly question, but I just want to cover my bases. I assume with the ghost label it has to be a 1959.

2) What was the first year that Guild produced the M-20? I can't seem to find consistent information on this.

3) How do the new US M-20's compare to the old ones? I've played both the new and old M-20's, and really liked them both, but there were months in between playing the old M-20 and the new US one.


It's a beautiful instrument. I shake when I see and play it. However, the price tag is steep: $2500. It really does look like it went from the production line directly into a time capsule; the epitome of "mint" condition. All this does not change the fact that $2500 is a lot of money, especially when the new US made M-20's are $1200ish. I'll for sure end up going for this old M-20 or one of the new ones either way. Any input/advice/feedback is appreciated.

Thanks everyone!
-Jeremy
 
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GardMan

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1) Should I be concerned about the seemingly 1953 serial number on a ghost label? Seems like a silly question, but I just want to cover my bases. I assume with the ghost label it has to be a 1959
IIRC, there was a time in the late 50s when a bunch of SNs from the early-mid 50s were "reused." If he doesn't respond to this thread, I suggest you contact LTG member Hans Moust with the SN and other details. He would be able to tell you the date the M-20 in question was made. Hans contact info can be found in his profile.

Welcome to LTG!
 

mavuser

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its 1959 or 1960 with the ghost label, but you should email Hans Moust directly at his website
 

walrus

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Welcome, jeremy! Good luck in your quest!

walrus
 
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Thanks everyone for all the feedback and support!

Hans e-mailed me with some really good information regarding the M-20. Very kind of him, and his knowledge base is amazing! The history of Guilds from this era and the sort of mystery that comes with it is fascinating!

I went down to Seattle today to play one of the new M-20s. My terminology is probably not correct, but it had the punch and the volume/clarity in the low end that I always really liked with my old M-20. As someone mentioned above, there are noticeable differences in the neck. It was really eye opening to play them both back to back. Really fun guitar, I definitely would love owning one at some point, but I think I prefer the more narrow neck on the old M-20s.

My D-25 is currently in his shop getting a setup (my mechanical knowledge is such that I'm dangerous, not effective). I'm not entirely sure if I'm going to move on this M-20 or not, but will update if I do. Regardless, when I leave the store that day, I'll be carrying something old, dark and loud that says "Guild" on the headstock!

Thanks again everyone for all your insight. It's super cool to see this community full of Guild lovers and experts!
-Jeremy
 

Kitarkus

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I had been worried about that old 1 5/8" nut since so many seem to find it too tight. If anything, it validated my inability to deal with the now prevalent larger 1 3/4" nut found on so many guitars. I love the 'narrow(er)' width. It has been said 1,000's of times before.....but here it goes again....there is no substitute for old wood. I was playing my 1968 M-20 this morning and it is really hard to put it down. The lightest touch of the strings even all the way up at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd frets translates through the top and sound hole....with just the lightest touch. I'm a sucker for these old Guild small bodies thus you know my bias....but you found a holy grail guitar that should be your friend for life.

No matter your purchase decision...please update the thread. You have my interest and I'd like to know what you decide to do.

Thanks everyone for all the feedback and support!

Hans e-mailed me with some really good information regarding the M-20. Very kind of him, and his knowledge base is amazing! The history of Guilds from this era and the sort of mystery that comes with it is fascinating!

I went down to Seattle today to play one of the new M-20s. My terminology is probably not correct, but it had the punch and the volume/clarity in the low end that I always really liked with my old M-20. As someone mentioned above, there are noticeable differences in the neck. It was really eye opening to play them both back to back. Really fun guitar, I definitely would love owning one at some point, but I think I prefer the more narrow neck on the old M-20s.

My D-25 is currently in his shop getting a setup (my mechanical knowledge is such that I'm dangerous, not effective). I'm not entirely sure if I'm going to move on this M-20 or not, but will update if I do. Regardless, when I leave the store that day, I'll be carrying something old, dark and loud that says "Guild" on the headstock!

Thanks again everyone for all your insight. It's super cool to see this community full of Guild lovers and experts!
-Jeremy
 

marius

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Jeremy, can you share the information Hans gave you on the serial number?

I was wondering almost the exact same thing last week when I came across an M20 on Reverb advertised as a 1959 with serial number 1417 and a ghost label.
 

Kitarkus

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Jeremy....I've been thinking about you and your M-20 find. What did you ever decide to do ??
 
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Thanks again for all the support everyone. It was a tough decision, but I decided to hold off. He has no rush to sell it, it's hiding in the back room of the shop, and it isn't advertised, which is good. so the door is still open...

My wife and I recently purchased a home, so cash on hand is... well, let's just say less than usual. I spent a lot of time thinking about it, trying out other vintage 3/4 size guitars, and trying to get comfortable with the neck on the new M-20. I spent hours scouring reverb and local shop websites trying to find something more affordable that was cool, too. Even without a major purchase, it revived my love for vintage acoustics and got me excited about guitars again. It's been a really fun process!

I ultimately had the shop that has the old M-20 do a setup on my 1973 D-25, and they did a great job, really brought the power back to that guitar. I tune 1/2 step down, and I think the tech made some minor adjustments to accommodate it better (I've been tuning down for a decade, had numerous setups, and this was the first time I told a tech about preferred tuning. I think I notice a significant difference, but it could be in my head).

I couldn't stand to sell my D-25, my American Special Tell, my tube, amp, and a collection of pedals for one guitar. I still want another vintage M-20, and someday I will. There's definitely a mystery around the 59 at my local shop, but as I think about, my 65 was played HARD, and it showed, and I loved it for that. Nice clean guitars are beautiful, no doubt, but I loved the stories that my 65 had to tell. I'm drawn to well playing, road warn instruments, and it's been fun to see a lot of them in the past few weeks.

Thanks again everyone, and thanks for keeping the Guild passion alive!

-Jeremy
 

Kitarkus

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Thanks again for all the support everyone. It was a tough decision, but I decided to hold off. He has no rush to sell it, it's hiding in the back room of the shop, and it isn't advertised, which is good. so the door is still open...

My wife and I recently purchased a home, so cash on hand is... well, let's just say less than usual. I spent a lot of time thinking about it, trying out other vintage 3/4 size guitars, and trying to get comfortable with the neck on the new M-20. I spent hours scouring reverb and local shop websites trying to find something more affordable that was cool, too. Even without a major purchase, it revived my love for vintage acoustics and got me excited about guitars again. It's been a really fun process!

I ultimately had the shop that has the old M-20 do a setup on my 1973 D-25, and they did a great job, really brought the power back to that guitar. I tune 1/2 step down, and I think the tech made some minor adjustments to accommodate it better (I've been tuning down for a decade, had numerous setups, and this was the first time I told a tech about preferred tuning. I think I notice a significant difference, but it could be in my head).

I couldn't stand to sell my D-25, my American Special Tell, my tube, amp, and a collection of pedals for one guitar. I still want another vintage M-20, and someday I will. There's definitely a mystery around the 59 at my local shop, but as I think about, my 65 was played HARD, and it showed, and I loved it for that. Nice clean guitars are beautiful, no doubt, but I loved the stories that my 65 had to tell. I'm drawn to well playing, road warn instruments, and it's been fun to see a lot of them in the past few weeks.

Thanks again everyone, and thanks for keeping the Guild passion alive!

-Jeremy

Excellent!...good stuff. I know how much i've been thinking about this M-20 that you found...so I can only assume that you have been thinking about it even more. Whatever you decide to do....it will be the correct choice. Enjoy your current stable and your new house. Should you come back around to that M-20....perhaps you two will meet again some day. Best!
 

GardMan

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Intermountain Guitar and Banjo in SLC has a '68 M-20 (go to link and scroll down to Guilds) for $1600 (still a lot of coin, but less than that in the OP). Not pristine, but in pretty good shape, cosmetically. Saddle might be low (hard to tell, but bridge is ramped for break angle on the treble strings), but might be stable and playable? I could check it out for anyone that's interested...
 

[J.K.]

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Rather that create a new thread, I may as well ask here:
I've played an older (late 50s) M-20 recently that was in lamentable shape, but flaws aside, I noticed the neck had a somewhat awkward girth to it compared to some of the 60s models I'd played. It also looked, at first glance, like the heel was flush with the back of the body (as pictured below). Is there a time period where the neck girth and construction changed, and does the older neck construction pose further problems with resets?
1962-Guild-M-20-Acoustic-Natural-Guitar-wHSC-USA-263716275480-9.JPG
 
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