Guild F20 Neck Reset

Bender

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!st time poster howdy!

I've been on the hunt for a new workhorse acoustic in the studio and my taste's have led me to demo the new M20 & a D25. Still gotta decide between the little guy and dread haha. However someone recently listed an old 1969 F20 ( theyre the single owner) a town over that's now a potential contender.

Haven't had the time to pop over and check it out in person but I had him send me some pics in the meantime...now after doing much reading I'm somewhat hesitant to pull the trigger on this old beauty even if it blows the newer mahogny guild out of the water tonewise, as I'm not sure I want to deal with the potential headache of the much dreaded Neck reset- let alone the 400-800 price tags I've seen thrown around for said work.

In anycase, I've attached some pics and shot these over to a respected luthier to get his take on it, but figured I'd post here too in the meantime.

So from these pics, what are ya'll thinking? The action described by the current owner and from the pictures does indeed look high....

thanks for the help on this journey for any willing to chip in their two cents!

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chazmo

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Welcome aboard.

That's a sweet, old, F-20, but the action looks kinda' high to me. That said, there is some room to shave that saddle down a bit. You should probably have it checked out first, if you can, before pulling the trigger. What's the asking price?
 

Bender

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Thanks for the christening Chazmo!

Asking 1200- so right in the ballpark of the newer models. Tough call. Seems like a genuine nice seller, offered the guitar to his kids but they don't want it...psht crazy right!?! Haha anyway, after explaining that I'm interested but don't want to offend with an offer reflecting the probable offset of the neck resetting price and he's "open to discuss the price"
 

davismanLV

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It sure is a pretty thing but I'm with chazmo, that action looks high. There is some saddle left but keep in mind the general formula is however much you want to lower the action at the 12th fret, you have to take DOUBLE that off the bottom of the saddle. That's not gonna leave you with much break angle on those strings and then your sound becomes compromised. That downward pressure on the saddle is what drives the soundboard. I think it's a great old guitar and I'll bet it sounds great but it all depends on if you want to get the work done and have a luthier you trust, and, of course, the price. :encouragement:

p.s. - welcome to LTG, Bender!!
 
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AcornHouse

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Welcome! Hoboken F-20s are treasures and well worth putting some money into. That being said, try to use the expected cost of the work into your offer. (And make sure you trust your luthier, and that he’s up to the task.)
 

hansmoust

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However someone recently listed an old 1969 F20 ( theyre the single owner) a town over that's now a potential contender.


nhij992xyxqlnsc6powu.jpg
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Hello Bender,

Welcome! Looks like a nice one! Guitar is most likely a little younger than from 1969; I would say more like 1971, but that should not make a lot of difference for the guitar.

Good luck!

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

mavuser

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i saw that guitar on reverb and that is a nice looking 1971 (edited) F-20. very transitional with not only that later brigde, but also the fact that said bridge is Brazilian.

I also have a 1970 F-20, its had a neck reset, as well as a re-top, refret, and refinish- all at the Westerly factoty in 1980- and it was *definitley* worth it! favorite spruce-top guitar ive ever played.

doh i see Hans replied and I also checked the serial number. 1971, indeed! pretty sure that is definitely the latest serial number I have ever seen that TRC on.
 
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Nuuska

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Hello

Oh what a beauty - the pictures give no hint about possibility of slightly curved neck - with good luck a little tightening of truss rod might be all she needs.
 

Kitarkus

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Action looks a bit high.....but I'd bet that you could shave the saddle down...perhaps even shave a bit off the bridge...and have her setup nicely without the need for an immediate neck reset. That said, she likely is at/near neck reset time from what little I can see in your photos. That guitar is worth fixing in my opinion...depending upon (1) what you can buy it for and (2) your access to a skilled and trusted luthier who can complete the work at a reasonable price and with minimal fuss. I'd think if that guitar were in real good shape and ready-to-play you could fetch $1000-1200 easily. The latest Vintage Guitar 2018 price guide gives excellent low $1200 and Exc High $1600. That is a guitar that I could get excited about if I could buy it 'right'.
 
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Bender

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Thanks for the all the wisdom guys! Ya'll are certainly making me wanna scoop her up before someone else does! As Mavuser said, she is available on Reverb, so anyone could just snag it away...but hey whatevers meant to be. Imagine my surprise when I inquired about his location and he was a town over. I've shot some pics over to Rick Cremer, he's a solid Luthier with a superb reputation based in Aurora ( waynes world party time excellent) , can't remember his opinions on guilds however as we mostly talk shop about all the fenders that go through his place....

Apparently the F20 has mostly been in the case the past 30 years, and he seems to be delighted that this baby would become a daily player in the recording studio for many a year to come if the deal does indeed work out.....
 

Bender

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i saw that guitar on reverb and that is a nice looking 1971 (edited) F-20. very transitional with not only that later brigde, but also the fact that said bridge is Brazilian.

I also have a 1970 F-20, its had a neck reset, as well as a re-top, refret, and refinish- all at the Westerly factoty in 1980- and it was *definitley* worth it!

All that after 10 years?Boy she must've gotten around :friendly_wink:
 

mavuser

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well since we are quoting Wayne's World..."she's the village bicycle, everyone's had a ride!"

seriously though I don't know the history of the guitar, just got it about 3 years ago. Hans Moust informed me of it's restoration, based on photos I mailed to him, and a present-day inspection by my luthier, of which the details I reported to him.
 

swiveltung

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It looks like there's some bridge insert left for lowering the action a bit. But how high is the high E string? I often have the low E pretty high , probably nearly 5/32". That does look a bit much at the 12th fret though. I bought my '71 F-20 this year with original case, original finish etc at about $600. It appears it's likely better shape than that one. I had been watching Ebay for a while and ran across it when there were a few on there at the same time. That often means you get a deal... albeit Ebay is getting where too much stuff arrives as junk... I got lucky this time.
 
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Br1ck

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I would not shave the bridge down for better action. It could well be Brazilian, and would only be replaced with a neck reset at the extra cost later. Evaluate it based on what it is and how long you could live with the action a lowered saddle would provide. Perhaps you could both go to your luthier together,see what he has to say and arrive at a fair price. I myself would pay at least a 50% premium for an early 70s Guild over a new one. I have put my money where my mouth was. Spent 1100 on my 70 D 35, but I bought it needing everything: frets, bridge (thanks to Hans Moust for having one) neck reset, nut and saddle. Got it cheap though.
 

adorshki

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!st time poster howdy!
Hi Bender, welcome aboard!
Surprised nobody's bothered to point out that what really needs to be done with that guitar is to make sure the truss is adjusted for straightness and then do a neck alignment check:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html
That thing is so freakin' purty it deserves to be made right.
Can understand why owner's asking top dollar but it's possible he's unaware of age-related issues like neck angle collapsing.
Agree with Br1ck, DON'T consider shaving that bridge unless you've already got a genuine replacement on hand, ready to use when needed..
Hans can probably advise if the bridges were still Braz on those in '71 (Guild had a pretty good stock of Braz in size suitable for bridges into the late '70's at least), and might even have an original replacement part.
 
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Bender

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Thanks for the insight guys! Well I've heard back from Rick, and he gave a pretty stellar low down the best he could through the pics without getting hands on her yet...I passed this reply on with the luthier's email to the seller explaining whats up and how If he could find a way to part with her at a price to reflect the necessary work needed to get her ready for another few decades & in studio player shape, otherwise I totally understand if he wants to hold out for a buyer willing to pay the full price....

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Yes, those old Guilds have an almost untapered dovetail neck joint. This makes their neck really hard to extract compared to Martins and Gibsons. And it looks like the action might be around 8/64" at the octave on the 6th string, so its probably time. Unless you can remove 1/16" from the saddle height.


I recently sold a 1962 F20 and recall their frets are quite short in height. This means there is not much material to file down to make fret tops level after the neck reset. The other issue is Guild finishes their guitars with the neck glued in. Plus they often over inject glue into the neck pocket. This means the glue oozes out of the dovetail pocket and around to the side. This makes neck removal damaging to the side surfaces.


If all goes well the Guild neck could get removed and refitted and reset for $400 or so. But there may need to be some slight finish touch up or extensive touch up added because the finish has to be cut thru to help separate the neck . There also might be more than the typical $50 to dress and recrown the frets over the body join. Worst case you will have to fully refret the whole neck ($400). Also, we might (usually) need to replace the bone saddle too.


A $1000 charge for all of this is possible but usually a couple hundred less.


Those are great old guitars.

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So its sounding like you guys who have a similar age F20, and from my guy Rick here, that it's probably about time for a reset. The seller is going to hit up a colleague luthier out of state for a 2nd photo opinion & possibly pop by a close local luthier to get 2nd opinion. There is one other competent tech here in the chicago area that can handle the task and is closer to his house that Ireferred him to so we'll see. It's possible once in 3d it might not need EVERYTHING done, as the quote is a worst case scenario/all inclusive bundle.

As purdy as a guitar she is, even if I could get him down to something in the 500/600 range( which would be ideal or fair? Thoughts?) dropping another 1000 into the guitar just isnt in my cards. Not all at once at least, but we'll see perhaps it's meant to be and something can work...otherwise I'll probably go with the new mahagony m20 or d25.Stay tuned....
 

Bender

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Hi Bender, welcome aboard!
Surprised nobody's bothered to point out that what really needs to be done with that guitar is to make sure the truss is adjusted for straightness and then do a neck alignment check:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html
That thing is so freakin' purty it deserves to be made right.
Can understand why owner's asking top dollar but it's possible he's unaware of age-related issues like neck angle collapsing.
Agree with Br1ck, DON'T consider shaving that bridge unless you've already got a genuine replacement on hand, ready to use when needed..
Hans can probably advise if the bridges were still Braz on those in '71 (Guild had a pretty good stock of Braz in size suitable for bridges into the late '70's at least), and might even have an original replacement part.

I certainly wouldn't want to mess up that braz wood either! I totally agree she's pretty and deserves to be done right, I'm sure it'll pay off handsomly..maybe I can be her next man. Fingers crossed!!!
 

adorshki

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A $1000 charge for all of this is possible but usually a couple hundred less.

That's about exactly where a "real" reset keeps coming back at when we've discussed it before, and for all those reasons mentioned.
That said, from what I see in pics, I think the cosmetic condition warrants a bit more investment than the average F20 seen around here.
of course it's all irrelevant if the guitar just don't float your boat.
 

D30Man

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Welcome Bender! Good luck! As you quickly saw there is no shortage of advice and good insight here.
 

Nuuska

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Hi Bender, welcome aboard!
Surprised nobody's bothered to point out that what really needs to be done with that guitar is to make sure the truss is adjusted for straightness and then do a neck alignment check:




Hello

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