Do it Yourself or Get a Luthier to Install Aftermarket Sound?

vastier

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By far, the musical instrument love of my life is my D-55 which I usually play unamplified. Occasionally though I play along to louder music and want to hear myself and had nothing but an electric guitar amp to put it through. The DTAR sound put through my Behringer twin 12 at 60 watts can shake the windows, but it sure doesn’t do the D-55 justice.

So last week I bought an acoustic amp, a Genz Benz Shenandoah Compak 300, and boy what a difference! Small little thing but the tone is so beautiful now – so sweet.

But now there’s my F-412 with no onboard sound, loud on its own, but I want to hear it amplified sometimes. So I bought it yesterday – an “LR Baggs Anthem SL Acoustic Microphone / Preamp System with Tru Mic Technology” from Strings and Beyond. Good xmas specials there right now (I have no affiliation).

Sweetwater says it’s remarkably easy to install. A few user reviews are glowing but suggest a pro should do the work.
I’m wondering what skill level is needed to install this. Anyone here done that? What are the critical points? Should one always turn to a luthier for this kind of work?
 

chazmo

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vastier,

That entirely depends on your comfort factor with your own abilities and whether you are comfortable holding yourself accountable for the work you do. I would certainly use a trusted luthier/tech for installing electronics. The endpin has to be drilled out, and I'm not sure whether you have a UST as part of this, but that also requires a hole through the bridge and bridge plate.

I don't know about the Anthem system, and I probably would've suggested going with D-TAR multi-source, but I wish you the best of luck.
 

Neal

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I have seen more than a handful of botched endpin drilling efforts that badly marred the guitar. Even some that required a huge washer under the jack to cover up the damage.

The tail block is a very important structural feature in an acoustic guitar. Drilling a larger hole in it is not to be taken lightly.

For the $50 it costs to have a pickup professionally installed, I think it is worth every penny on something as nice as an F-412.

I consider myself "handy", and have the proper tools, but this is a job I will not do.
 

GuildFS4612CE

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If you have to ask, it's best to pay someone for their knowledge, experience, expertise...why risk a nice instrument.
 

txbumper57

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I completely agree with the previous posts. Have a competent Luthier do the install to avoid any unnecessary damage to the guitar. When I say find a competent Luthier, that does not include the guys they have working at Guitar Center. Find someone who is qualified and has a good reputation for quality work. If you don't have someone you trust I would search for a licensed Guild repair facility. They should be able to do the install without issue. The install fee is well worth not having a cracked tail block from a botched end pin drilling attempt. Just an opinion as always.

TX
 

bronzeback

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Ok I'll pitch for the other angle on this. Yes you must do your research, be super careful, accept your mistake if you mess it up, but... dude it's drilling a hole in a piece of wood... not that complicated. I change my own oil in my cars too... also not that complicated. If you can afford to pay someone and you are not comfortable with learning new things, maybe that is the best option. Side note; my "I can do it myself instead of paying a pro" philosophy has not worked out on more than one occasion I must admit, but it is always a learning experience for next time. But drilling an endpin jack...you can do it!
 

vastier

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If you have to ask, it's best to pay someone for their knowledge, experience, expertise...why risk a nice instrument.

Actually, maybe you misinterpreted, because I don't have to ask, but it's part of the joy of being part of this lovely community that I can ask fellow Guild lovers where they come down on questions like these. I was already leaning toward a luthier, and all of you so far have confirmed this. But I sure wanted to hear your thoughts and those of others about this, and any more to come. Thank you GuildFS4612CE and others!
 

vastier

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vastier,

That entirely depends on your comfort factor with your own abilities and whether you are comfortable holding yourself accountable for the work you do. I would certainly use a trusted luthier/tech for installing electronics. The endpin has to be drilled out, and I'm not sure whether you have a UST as part of this, but that also requires a hole through the bridge and bridge plate.

I don't know about the Anthem system, and I probably would've suggested going with D-TAR multi-source, but I wish you the best of luck.


Yes, I would have preferred the DTAR system as well because I'm familiar with it, but it's not as easy to get and more expensive north of the border.
 

AcornHouse

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Ok I'll pitch for the other angle on this. Yes you must do your research, be super careful, accept your mistake if you mess it up, but... dude it's drilling a hole in a piece of wood... not that complicated.
No offense Bronze, but have you done this? The main difficulty in drilling out the endpin hole is that there is already a hole there. To get a clean hole it’s best to use a Forstner bit or brad point bit; both of which have a center point. With a hole already there, there’s nothing for that center point to grip onto. Most luthiers will use a reamer to open up the hole, not a drill. You don’t want the drill bit skipping all over the bottom of the guitar. AND, you want the hole centered.
Yes, it’s easy to drill a hole; but this is tricky to do right, without leaving marks where you don’t want them. It can be done by an amateur, but it is NOT to be taken lightly.
 

crank

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I had my luthier install electrics on 2 guitars. I was nervous about drilling the endpin holes out but the real reason was that K&K's instructions clearly stated that placement of the treble strings transducer was very critical. I like doing stuff myself but felt it best left to a pro.
 

wileypickett

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Most luthiers will use a reamer to open up the hole, not a drill. You don’t want the drill bit skipping all over the bottom of the guitar. AND, you want the hole centered./QUOTE]

+1 to this! I have three reamers with varying degrees of graduation from slightly tapered to steep. Since I don't use pickups in any of my acoustic instruments, I mainly use them for enlarging tuner post holes when installing upgraded tuners, as well as enlarging bridge pin holes when bridge pins are too tight.

They insure that holes stay centered, and the fact that reamers are hand operated, you'll avoid such problems as drill chatter and gouging due to the lack of control that comes with using a drill.

There are very few jobs where I'd use a drill on a guitar.
 

Rayk

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I have seen more than a handful of botched endpin drilling efforts that badly marred the guitar. Even some that required a huge washer under the jack to cover up the damage.

The tail block is a very important structural feature in an acoustic guitar. Drilling a larger hole in it is not to be taken lightly.

For the $50 it costs to have a pickup professionally installed, I think it is worth every penny on something as nice as an F-412.

I consider myself "handy", and have the proper tools, but this is a job I will not do.

I’ve done my own but I’ll echo Neils and the others comments to have a luthier do it .

Number one thing is using the wrong drill bit will destroy the end pin hole . No one wants that .

Wood working experience is best . But I can say my Job says experience is not needed nor wanted as a college degree proves you can do it all better and you even get payed more ! Ding ! Where that come from ? Ignore that last bit .., I said bit lol
 

fronobulax

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Ok I'll pitch for the other angle on this. Yes you must do your research, be super careful, accept your mistake if you mess it up, but... dude it's drilling a hole in a piece of wood... not that complicated. I change my own oil in my cars too... also not that complicated. If you can afford to pay someone and you are not comfortable with learning new things, maybe that is the best option. Side note; my "I can do it myself instead of paying a pro" philosophy has not worked out on more than one occasion I must admit, but it is always a learning experience for next time. But drilling an endpin jack...you can do it!

There's an emotional component as well. If I try and fail then I am going to be mad at myself for screwing up a perfectly nice guitar. If I don't fail but don't get things quite right then I am going to remember every time I play the instrument. If someone else does it then there is an obvious target if the job is not done properly.
 

walrus

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I had a K&K Pure Mini installed in my D64 - didn't even consider doing it myself - another vote for a luthier!

walrus
 

PittPastor

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I payed $35 to have mine done. (Plus I bought the pickup at the shop) That isn't much. If you have a luthier. Use the luthier.

I'm not familiar with the Anthem you have, but for my Fisheman pickup, it wasn't just the end pin, it was also shaving the saddle down to fit the UTS pickup in. And if that isn't right, it will sound even worse than it normally does.(EDIT: If you do decide to do it yourself the guy who installed mine says he never uses a power drill. He slowly drills it by hand.)

But let me address this first: Are you sure of what you want going in? Are you after the Holy Grail of: "I want my Guild guitar sound -- just louder?" Because if you are after that... good luck. I spent a lot of money and time trying to get my Guild D40C amplified. I wanted that sound but louder. I never got it. I finally ended up settling for something that sounds like an acoustic guitar -- even if it isn't quite my Guild sound.

I ended up with a Fishman Matrix UTS pickup and pluging it into a Fishman Aura "Pedal". The Aura takes the signal from my Matrix, and maps it to a digital sound of a guitar that was recorded in their studio. They have some Guild models to choose from. I am actually using the Olson JT model for my guitar. Does my Guild sound like an Olson when I mic it? Of course not. It doesn't sound like a Guild D40 either. But it sounds like a good acoustic guitar. I've settled for that.

Theoretically, if you have a decent external mic, and a decent acoustic room, you can use the ToneDexter (http://audiosprockets.com) to model your exact sound. I didn't even know about that when I got my Aura. But I got my Aura at GC for 50% off, so I'm OK with what I have.

What I don't have is my D40C, Louder. Which is what I wanted. I think if I really wanted to record something with my Guild -- like to lay down a recording -- I would mic it externally. But at least when I plug into the church PA to play some song, I don't hear my B and E strings sounding like they are being played via a Kazoo.

FWIW. Amping a guitar to the sound you want is not cheap. Your Luthier bill will be a small part of the final solution.
 
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dreadnut

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Yeah, what they said, put it in the hands of a competent luthier and you'll be happy!
 

bronzeback

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No offense Bronze, but have you done this? The main difficulty in drilling out the endpin hole is that there is already a hole there. To get a clean hole it’s best to use a Forstner bit or brad point bit; both of which have a center point. With a hole already there, there’s nothing for that center point to grip onto. Most luthiers will use a reamer to open up the hole, not a drill. You don’t want the drill bit skipping all over the bottom of the guitar. AND, you want the hole centered.
Yes, it’s easy to drill a hole; but this is tricky to do right, without leaving marks where you don’t want them. It can be done by an amateur, but it is NOT to be taken lightly.

Yes I've done it maybe a dozen times and you are absolutely correct. Like i said do your research, use the right tools and go slow. Or pay a pro.
 

chazmo

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Right on, guys. Great discussion and advice from everyone.

Best of luck, vastier!

For anyone considering adding electronics, I'd like to post a link to Chris Cozad's thread on the subject, but I can't find it. Does anyone have a link? It was the most thorough treatment on the subject that we have around here, and would be good to pin.
 
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I have several guitars with OEM electronics installed, and some that have vintage after-market stuff installed, such as a Barcus Berry in my Gallagher Doc Watson, which doesn't need any amplification AT ALL.
And then there is a bunch of 100% original 100% acoustic guitars that are pretty collectible or will be in the future, because they are top-of-the-line models. IF I want to amplify them I use temporary installed soundhole pickups, such as the LR Baggs M-1, I also have a Shadow SH145 and several cheap BellCats. I tape the wire onto the guitar with a piece of Scotch Magic.

If amplication is really important, I play my Maton EM325C with a built-in AP-5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KJEOJbd5ts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dip7RYBqhyM

or my Blueridge BR-143CE with a built-in Fishman Prefix (they changed that to PreSys)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5vsWRicDhM


If necessary the LR Bagss M-1 is always an option. Keith Urban was quite successful with it.


This way I keep my collectibles original.

But IF I was considering a permanent install of a piëzo I have it done by my luthier and good old friend Harrie from the Mandolin Shop. It's a matter of trust.


Ginger
 
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