NGD...on the G312th day of Christmas...

mavuser

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the (1979) Ovation creation:

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mavuser

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some thoughts and observations.

the seller claimed she purchased both guitars brand new in 1983, and that they have never been set up, repaired, or worked on in any way. she said she purchased the guitars 34 years ago, and that the strings on the guitars right now are from "twenty something years ago, from when my brother changed them." Ultimately, I believe her every word to be true.

had a closer look at the Ovation. It has been played. a little. there is just a hint of some fret dents, and some signs of play on the fretboard itself. I can't tell if the frets have been leveled or not, I suspect that this 1979 guitar sat in a store until 1983 and may have been set up in 1983 at point of retail sale (definitely suspect that with the Guild), if the Ovaiton was set up the frets may have been leveled I just can't tell. The saddle is super high however, so that likely was never touched. the back of the body, back of the neck, and both sides of the headstock look untouched. the tuners have the slightest signs of contact, but might clean up as new. the top is -not- cracked or even creased as far as I can see. there is humidification in it now so I am anxious to see if there will be movement or possible checking/ craking etc. when I look at the top in the right light I can see the slightest community of surface pickmarks, that would be equivalent to weeks or months of play time, not years.

the Guild, as usual, has a little more explaining to do (but no worries, all is cool in the gang). again, keeping with my theory, this 1980 guitar may have been set up at point of retail sale in 1983, at which time the saddle was likely taken down. i would also guess, at this same time, the bridge may have been reglued, I cant say for sure, but that is my guess. the bridge itself was not shaved or sanded. other than the immediate bridge area, the top is clean as a whistle. the slightest surface pickmarks (less than the ovation), tuners look brand new, frets have no denting at all and fretboard is also mint. again could not say if frets were leveled at all or not, possibly a touch with the saddle. overall id say the frets are about as high as id ever seen on a Guild 12-string and to be honest I can basically say the same for the saddle (albeit, that is not saying much since Guild can tend to be a well acknowledged low-rider). remember the guitar is 37/38 years old and overall i am very happy. ill have to get it set up and we will see what the luthier says. i imagine he may lower the saddle, and much of the time he likes to replace the saddle. lower saddles on Guilds do not give me any concern. I have many Guilds like this and they will be fine for a long, long time. you play one and you know, it needs nothing! the Guild has some humidification going but really didnt need anything extreme. the back of the neck is super clean- there is a blemish where it rested in the case neck cradle for its whole life, that aligns with the same shape marr in the case cradle itself. there are some random scratches on the back, not many, and not belt rash- more like just random selection isolated incidents? maybe 2 or 3 surface nitro screatches of this nature...there is a very slight scuff on the front of the headstock and incidental marks from strings (really nit picking here) but none of it goes thru the finish.

my point of retail sale 1983 set up theory could also explain the mix up in user manuals with the 1983 D-46. still could have happened at Westerly either way, this theory just offers a potential alternate guilty party (Guildy as chaaarged!)

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also some documentation of correct TRC orientation, compliments of the D46:
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case key in envelope, always a good sign:

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JohnW63

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Ah, a non Electric/Acoustic version.

Mine is from about 1974, no cracks. Just a few dents I put in it.
 

txbumper57

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That is a good looking Ovation and I have never been a fan of the Ovations. This photo of the D46 manual and string type is very interesting. If I am not mistaken aren't the model "M-450" Guild strings as stamped in this Factory Westerly Manual a Medium Gauge String Set? According to Al all of the Westerly 6 string models came with lights from the factory which would have been a "350" string set if I am not mistaken. This could be some "Space Time Continuum" altering information, LOL!

SJin4R.jpg


TX
 

mavuser

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i edited post #21 of this thread, in case you could not see the first photo (the front of the Ovation), it should be all there now.

is it rare for this model Ovation to not have electronics?

also looks like GC has the exact same Ovation year and model (no pickup), with case- but listed in "good" condition, saddle looks somewhat low and i see 2 screws in the bridge- for $399+$35 shipping and $6 tax (the tax part doesnt seem right but thats what it says). anyway, this is good to know! http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Ov...^377370842076-sku^113486155@ADL4GC-adType^PLA


and another from 2015 Reverb sale, listed at $600 + $50 shipping as "mint" (looks clean but my saddle is higher)

https://reverb.com/item/355353-1977-ovation-legend-1117-natural
 
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walrus

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Great scores! And thanks for the great photos! I also cannot play an Ovation - the bowl simply slides down my lap - PITA! I played one standing up (strapped) once and it was slightly better, but just not for me. This was back in the late '70's, but I'm pretty sure the one I was playing did not have electronics, either.

walrus
 

mavuser

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got lucky on the 312. back from luthier tonight. copying my message to Hans here, and then I am finished talking about this thing for a while, time to try and learn how to play it proper. i can say right now it sounds just beautiful, bright, and loud.

the G-312 was a home run. no issues whatsoever. definitely some odd questions that I will never know the answer to, but it really doesn't matter. the truss rods both appeared untouched, dried compound un-cracked on both truss rod nuts and in both TR cavities, like I said. but they *both* had *zero* tension on them. the bridge had been off, and reglued. but the bridge itself was not shaved or sanded. the saddle in it was low, and almost perfectly flat (really!) quite simply my guess is it all had something to do with the point of retail sale, or possibly selling a "like new" guitar (guitars, actually) as "brand new" at a deep discount to an uneducated buyer (acoustics are tough!), just adds more to the mystery that whoever "set up" the guitar in 1983 had no clue what they were doing, at all.


anyway, according to Mike, whoever touched it previously did not do any harm to it or mod it in any way. Mike put in a new 20 radius saddle to match the fretboard, and it is considerably higher than the saddle that I got it with, a very comfortable amount of saddle remains, for 1980 (according to Mike the guitar needs nothing for a long, long time) both truss rods have plenty of room to turn both ways. frets are tall and proud, no wear whatsoever. just some light pickguard wear/very minimal signs of previous life. no loose braces or anything at all like that...its really, really, really nice. just sounds incredible. going to take some time to decide if i can really learn to play it, but it is just sooo clean and nice...same old dilemma...


I know Neil Young performed Pocahontas on a G-312, and based simply on it's beauty (and pink/salmon label) I have decided to name this one "Pocahontas."

cheers!
 

mavuser

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i have some high humidity going in the Ovation, and it appears the top may be responding. just going to give it more time. but i'll be unloading it at some point.
 

JohnW63

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I don't know the numbers of pure acoustic vs acoustic/electric Ovation Legends out there, but I would guess the no electric are a lot less common. Being a stage guitar was one of their selling points. Mine is a model 1617-4 and I really don't know how it differs from yours with a very different model #. I really like the inside of the case it came in !

I just did some looking. the 1117 was the non electric version.
 

mavuser

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I don't know the numbers of pure acoustic vs acoustic/electric Ovation Legends out there, but I would guess the no electric are a lot less common. Being a stage guitar was one of their selling points. Mine is a model 1617-4 and I really don't know how it differs from yours with a very different model #. I really like the inside of the case it came in !

I just did some looking. the 1117 was the non electric version.

u like the inside of my Ovation case, or yours?

also just have to ask, even though you are 3,000 miles away...since you already have the same guitar with electronics...u don't want mine, do you?
 

adorshki

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That is a good looking Ovation and I have never been a fan of the Ovations. This photo of the D46 manual and string type is very interesting. If I am not mistaken aren't the model "M-450" Guild strings as stamped in this Factory Westerly Manual a Medium Gauge String Set?
YES
According to Al all of the Westerly 6 string models came with lights from the factory which would have been a "350" string set if I am not mistaken.
NO.
I never said "Always", only late Westerly (post '95) that I know of for sure.
THAT post simply moved the date for mediums to '83 for a verified example.
I've been fully aware for almost 10 years that mediums were used at least from approximately early-to-mid seventies, to some time in the '80's, but don't know for sure when lights started being standard.
I suspect it actually began when they were the first to use D'Addario's new Phosphor Bronze alloy in '74, or at least became more feasible.
Might have been appropriate for F20's/ F30's for example.
Never seen anything definitive, but my best guess is that it accompanied the lightened-up builds introduced during the Gruhn-Walker years.
In fact here's a thread from 2015 detailing lights being used on an '71 D25 (which I believe was a holdover from light Hoboken style build) and an '81 D25:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...th-at-the-end-of-1971&highlight=alloy+strings
Since then I also noticed that the L330 and L350 are already offered on the '86 price list, and the '87 list has an even wider variety available.
My guess when I first stumbled across that was that they knew they had to offer strings appropriate for both older and brand new models.
In fact they still offered M450's when 90% of all the acoustics were being shipped with L350's,too.
I know for sure that the '96 price list and Guild's website showed all dreads and jumbos being spec'd with lights, the only exceptions being 12-ers and my F65ce with EXTRA lights (L330), and not sure about those other Fxxce types, but being intended to feel like electrics, that was part of the method of achieving it.
That spec for light strings was up even partway into New Hartford period until they finally revamped the website.
this could be some "Space Time Continuum" altering information, LOL!
I think that's just your meds.
:tongue-new:
 
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merlin6666

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Congrats, those are some sweet guitars you picked. I like my Ovations probably a bit more than my Guilds, though they get along well as they were all built in the same factory just a few years apart. As your 1117 (and case) is in such excellent condition I would hope you can get a higher price than what was recently sold on reverb, but you may have to be patient for an enthusiast to find it. A good place to find out more and also post it for sale is the OFC (Ovation Fanclub) forum.
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/
 

mavuser

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merlin, thanks! I will check out the O-forum and see if they will let me hit and run. that will be several weeks/months from now, though. i need to see where the top stabilizes and establish a reasonable amount of humidity to the point that everything appears, at least to me, "good to go," and see what "good to go" is even going to equate to. Also, LTG gets first dibs! I haven't really checked the action and detuned the old strings as soon as I got it. One thing is for sure, it is the tallest saddle I have ever seen on an acoustic guitar. I'd maybe ask a luthier to take it down a bit just so it doesn't clip my hand while strumming, ha
 

merlin6666

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One thing is for sure, it is the tallest saddle I have ever seen on an acoustic guitar. I'd maybe ask a luthier to take it down a bit just so it doesn't clip my hand while strumming, ha

On the picture from behind it actually does NOT look like an Ovation saddle at all, and the break angle is way too acute IMO. This may be a replacement that is too high. The OFC has many helpful experts for that kind of thing. Also Ovation is known for their outstanding product support, and chances are that if you actually need a new OM saddle they might just send you one for free from the NH factory.
 

mavuser

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merlin, thanks again very kindly for the info. id be tempted to bring the 1117 back up to the factory in Connecticut, have them do what they deem necessary to it. But to be brutally honest, I think I just want to sell it as is. Sure I could get a new saddle and have my luthier set it up nice, or have them set it up at the factory. but this thing basically fell in my lap, and i'm not looking to reinvent the wheel. I have no interest in keeping or playing it, the back is simply too curved, and deep, for my taste. the sad truth is I will probably not even change the strings. this one is just passing thru, but glory awaits for an Ovation player to get it where it needs to be. I'll let that person start from the beginning on this one, themselves! I will have my luthier look at it however, once it is adequately humidified (spring-summer)...I would not take anyone's money for this, or any acoustic really, without his approval.
 

mavuser

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also I checked out the Ovation forum, pretty cool! its no LTG, but similar vibe. keeping it real, so it appeared.
 

mavuser

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just a brief update here, when I first got the 312 back i was a little worried with the volume/attack/brightness...this dread sounded more in the middle of an F-512 and a F-412...just, very loud...church music is all I can say to describe it.

but after a couple weeks of the new strings stretching/contracting/ whatever it is that happens in the first couple weeks...the tone has definitely mellowed out a bit and she sounds just perfect for a RW Guild 12. I still may try different strings later, or even possibly sell the guitar at some point, but for now, I am extremely happy with it.

also, I made the mistake of tuning up and playing the Ovation 1117, even with the crusty strings,and wow that guitar sounds unreal and feels amazing. the top is still leveling out with humidity. not sure if it will be perfectly flat or not but its definitely come back up a bit. I need to show it to my luthier and make sure the braces are not loose- if they are- then the top may indeed flatten out again upon re-gluing. i definitely need to sell the Ovation but it it sounds amazing- Kind of blowing my mind. only the top is made of wood? the rest fiberglass? far out
 

JohnW63

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Not really fiberglass, but a combination of things Charlie Kaman came up with that he called "Lyracord".

While I would like to give it a play, since I have it's acoustic/electric brother, I think the guitar would be redundant. There are a few Ovations I WOULD like to get my hands on, in the Nylon string family, or a few highly regarded models. The prices on these have been climbing and trying to push them out of my budget.
 
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