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Thread: Would you ever consider buying a "Modified Guild?"

  1. #11
    I played a Zager guitar once. It was a small-bodied Pacific Rim instrument & quite easy to play.

    But in reality, it's just a matter of having a good setup done - so beware of the hype & upcharge.
    > Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40nt / '76 G-37bld / '92 D-6nt-hg / '94 JF-30nt / '97 Starfire III / '14 Savoy A-150b
    > Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES-125T / '66 Epi Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean / '00 J-100xt / '02 J-45 RW / '02 SG / '06 ES-335 / '09 ES-339 / '10 ES-330L / '11 ES-335 P90s / '12 ES-330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185 / '13 LG-2 / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15
    > Epis: '00 AIUSA Sheraton / '05 McCartney Texan / '09 Elitist Casino
    > Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom RW D

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    I keep saying I'm going to start a thread on it. What's held me up is I want to do some pictures and maybe video showing how I played, and how I tried to switch to, and why I think it messed up my hand. Problem is, with the thumb still tweaked, I don't want to make the video yet.

    Oh, what the heck... I'll derail my own thread. This one is probably played out anyway... I know I'm not buying a Zag-Guild.

    In a nutshell, I went back to the drawing board on my playing style (that was developed over 30 some years of "teach myself guitar"). I changed my hand position -- at the same time I started trying different guitar neck profiles. Bad idea, and I should have known better (you never change two variables at the same time!)

    The way I was understanding the "correct" way of playing the guitar meant dropping my thumb to halfway down the neck. "Never have the thumb showing above the neck." Keep a "C" shape in the hand, so you can "pinch" the guitar neck between the thumb and fingers to get a better angle and pressure for those pesky barre chords and such.

    What ended up happening was that I put too much pressure on the first knuckle joint of my thumb (not at once. But over a few days of playing the new modified style.) Now it sort of feels swollen and like the knuckle is halfway between a pop. (Anyone who cracks their knuckles knows what I mean... like it should pop, but didn't, and now it just hurts. -- I don't pop or crack my thumb knuckle... its just the best way I can describe the feeling.) I can actually feel the tendon pop a little sometimes on some lateral movements. After a week of rest, it feels better, but last night I was playing "Corey's Coming" and on the move from the B min to the F# min (Barre to Barre) I felt that twinge and the thumb was on fire again. I don't think it is fully re-injured. But I think it's going to take longer to heal than I originally thought. It's the lateral movement that hurts now. Even an F causes a bit of pain.
    Thanks for the explanation, but I think our idea (yours vs. mine) of a stupid experiment is quite different.
    1978 Guild D-40
    1998 Vagabond Travel Guitar http://www.stringsmith.com
    2015 Guild OM-140CE Sunburst Westerly Collection

  3. #13
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazmo View Post
    If you want to trade guitars for a while to get to the point where you find your perfect instrument -- which is a super fun way to do this -- you have to be sure you understand what you're buying so you can sell it in the near-term without losing your shirt. This Zager thing will not be in the same market as an original-condition instrument.
    I appreciate that Chazmo. They do have one at GC. I can order it in, and try it risk free. The web page says they are 100% risk free as well -- meaning if you don't like it they pay for the shipping both ways PLUS refund your money -- but I know how easy GC is to work with. I can see me fighting over fees and such with a company I don't know. Plus, I get 24 months interest free at GC.

    I guess some of this depends on how my hand does. If it comes around, I won't bother. But, if it keeps lingering, I might try it, just to see if it actually does fret easier. But I won't do the ZagGuild. I'd go for a full on Zag Guitar, I think. It's actually cheaper that way and less risk as well.
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  4. #14
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guild-1979-d40 View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, but I think our idea (yours vs. mine) of a stupid experiment is quite different.
    Could be. IDK what you were expecting... but, yeah, there were no "Here, hold my beer" moments. This time.
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  5. #15
    Hello

    That Zager-thing looks dubious. He makes big issue of 1/32-inch - less than 1mm - spacing of strings. On my sig you see I play F-50R and F-512 - those two already have different spacing - add to that the little Gibson LG2-3/4 so we have string spacing at the nut varying from roughly 1+11/32 to 1+13/32 to 1+16/32 - on 512 I measure middle of string-pair. Then I have a spanish nylon string with not flat, but concave fingerboard and quite wide spacing. No problems switching between any two any time between songs.

    That 1/32 extra inch heīs selling will be 1/160 inch per space between any two strings - WOW - HURRAA - end of whatever ...

    That action thing, where 10 first frets are relatively lower than the rest means the fingerboard is bent towards guitar top - starting round 10th - makes somewhat sense - but then I am not that kind of player - so Iīll leave judgment of that to others.

    The thinning of braces - letīs hear somebody who builds or repairs acoustic guitars. Sure it is going to change things - but is it going to stay stable?

    Guaranteed - resale value may go up or down depending to whom you sell the guitar later on. I would play safe and only do minor modifications - like adding pickups under saddle - changing better tuners and stuff like that.

    I would definitely not object, if somebody were offering a technically and sonically healthy Guild, that had some nice "aftermarket" inlays on fingerboard.
    First good guitar - GUILD Duane Eddy 400 - I was 3rd owner - used to have Artist Award and Starfire
    Present guitars - F50R 1975 - F512 1977 - F212CSB 1979 - all bought new - B30SB fretless and RED Songbird bought secondhand - Schecter Startocaster - Gibson 3/4-size acoustic 1957 - Carmelo Gonzales nylon string - old Levin Lute

  6. #16
    Go back to putting your thumb on top of the neck.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Rich Cohen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    I keep saying I'm going to start a thread on it. What's held me up is I want to do some pictures and maybe video showing how I played, and how I tried to switch to, and why I think it messed up my hand. Problem is, with the thumb still tweaked, I don't want to make the video yet.

    Oh, what the heck... I'll derail my own thread. This one is probably played out anyway... I know I'm not buying a Zag-Guild.

    In a nutshell, I went back to the drawing board on my playing style (that was developed over 30 some years of "teach myself guitar"). I changed my hand position -- at the same time I started trying different guitar neck profiles. Bad idea, and I should have known better (you never change two variables at the same time!)

    The way I was understanding the "correct" way of playing the guitar meant dropping my thumb to halfway down the neck. "Never have the thumb showing above the neck." Keep a "C" shape in the hand, so you can "pinch" the guitar neck between the thumb and fingers to get a better angle and pressure for those pesky barre chords and such.

    What ended up happening was that I put too much pressure on the first knuckle joint of my thumb (not at once. But over a few days of playing the new modified style.) Now it sort of feels swollen and like the knuckle is halfway between a pop. (Anyone who cracks their knuckles knows what I mean... like it should pop, but didn't, and now it just hurts. -- I don't pop or crack my thumb knuckle... its just the best way I can describe the feeling.) I can actually feel the tendon pop a little sometimes on some lateral movements. After a week of rest, it feels better, but last night I was playing "Corey's Coming" and on the move from the B min to the F# min (Barre to Barre) I felt that twinge and the thumb was on fire again. I don't think it is fully re-injured. But I think it's going to take longer to heal than I originally thought. It's the lateral movement that hurts now. Even an F causes a bit of pain.
    I developed the same problem about six months ago, and had exactly the same experiences you are having. Rest is the only solution. But, in the meantime you can try a Futuro thumb brace, which is basically made for folks who have hand problems from keyboarding too much. I found that even when the thumb tendon was acting up (producing the very same pain you're describing), I'd put on the Futuro thumb brace and it pretty much prevented the tendon from snapping and hurting. You'll find the brace in your friendly pharmacy.

    Good luck.
    Rich

    P.S. I owned a Zager made dred a couple of years back, one of their low end models and sold it. After that, I discovered Guild, and never looked elsewhere. BTW, my Gibson J-185 will be leaving the herd shortly.
    Last edited by Rich Cohen; 11-27-2017 at 07:27 PM.
    1994 DV-72 (ex-richardp69)
    1999 Finesse Nashville Custom Shop (ex-richardp69) Just arrived!
    2000 JF-65CE Nashville Custom Shop (ex-richardp69)
    2010 F-40 GSR Cocobolo (ex-richardp69)
    2012 F-47KCE GSR (ex-richardp69)

  8. #18
    From what I have heard, "Zagerizing" is just a set up... with perhaps some fret work, plus a switch to extra light strings.. No real modifications to the fretboard itself or bracing.

    What's odd about this particular guitar is that it's NOT new... from what I can see, it is a '60s era D-40, '69 or earlier. This is based on the "cloud" style bridge with thru saddle and the oval (Hoboken or Westerly). All the "Zagerized" guitars I have seen (for a while there were so many on eBay that I used filters to exclude them from my searches) were new... and mostly Pac Rim guitars, including an occasional Guild GAD series. Makes me wonder if this seller is blowing smoke, and using the "Zager" moniker as an "excuse" for his low saddle.

    50+ years ago, my guitar teacher Andy always said that the pad of my thumb should be centered on the back of the neck, with fingers properly arched over the strings. He had a worksheet that he filled out each lesson as I played... with check boxes for things I did right or wrong... That was one of the boxes. But, these days, I play with my thumb wrapped to fret the 6th string. Every once in a while, while playing a bass run on the 6th with my thumb, I think of what Andy would say... and then I go on playing the way I feel comfortable playing.
    Dave

    '72 D-35 (Jan '73)
    '81 D-46NT (Oct '07)
    '94 DV-72NT (turquoise; Jan '16)
    '94 DV-72NT MK (malachite; Oct '14)
    '95 DV-73 NT HG (Aug '12)
    Gone but not forgotten
    '71 D-44NT (2008-2015)
    '74 G-37Bld (2006-2015)
    '74 D-25M (2006-2015)
    '76 D-50NT (2009-2016)
    '78 D-35 (1986-2007)
    '92 D-55 (2007-2014)


    All my Guilds, past and present (pics)...
    My Soundclick! page...

  9. #19
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Cohen View Post
    I developed the same problem about six months ago, and had exactly the same experiences you are having. Rest is the only solution. But, in the meantime you can try a Futuro thumb brace, which is basically made for folks who have hand problems from keyboarding too much. I found that even when the thumb tendon was acting up (producing the very same pain you're describing), I'd put on the Futuro thumb brace and it pretty much prevented the tendon from snapping and hurting. You'll find the brace in your friendly pharmacy.
    Thanks Rich -- two questions: 1) Did you injure your thumb by playing guitar? Or something else? 2) How long did you rest it?
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  10. #20
    Not until the year 25-25 unless it is done by: http://www.bryankimsey.com/

    Click under Luthrie and YOU will know why!
    Last edited by Rick Schmidlin; 11-27-2017 at 08:27 PM.

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