Tonal diffences F30 standard/F30 Argon

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
Tonal diffences F30 standard/F30 Aragon

Interested in the tonal differences between the F30 standard and F30 Argon .

So ya all know I just returned the NH f30 standard stika top hog B&S

It had a crisp sound , great tonal range defined and detailed , great note separation . So maybe the norm for these guitars or was the wood which was why I bought it lol

The F30 Argon has the Adirondack top hog B&S

The F 30 has the 1 3/4 nut ? Vrs the 1 11/16 on the Argon .
Argon has 3pc neck the standard is one pc .

I think the rest of it is the same maybe tuner difference but we’re on the tone thing here lol

Yeah so is there a bracing difference along with scallop differences? Or are the same in both models ?

Thanks ;)
 
Last edited:

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
I don't think they would fit into the same Sonic Safe Space without competing with each other for 3rd or 6th place but it is November after all so who knows?:crazy: Just kidding man. The Aragon was part of the traditional series IIRC which means it should have Tortoise binding and a Solid Ebony Wood headstock faceplate with the Chesterfield inlay as well if it is a New Hartford model.

TX
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
Says 2010 has Mr Chester pick gaurd and binding as you say , best I can see . Head cap looks rosewood . It’s on Reverb under F 30 the Sunburst one .
Not cheap lol
I just wonder how it would sound compared to the f30 standard . Having the Aldi I jump to the conclusion it would have a little brighter , tighter tone .
Now you heard the NH F30’s or heard tail about there sustain and such as we lightly discussed lol
So what’s the Argon like ? Lol
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
New Hartford F-30 Standard vs. New Hartford F-30 Traditional Aragon, right?

Mrs. Fro. spent some time doing an A/B at a "petting zoo" at the factory. The nut widths are different, which wasn't a big deal for her, and the binding and pickguard(?) were and she did have a preference for the tortoiseshell. There was the satin finish difference, as well. She was not looking at construction so would not have noticed bracing or neck construction differences. The Guild employees in public and private conversation stressed the similarities between the Standard and Traditional. Nut width, neck construction and satin finish were the things they emphasized but the neck differences were supposed to be only noticeable to the builder, not the player. She could not discern a sonic difference although that was not what she was focused on while playing. The various LTG members who assisted in the comparison did not remark on the sonic differences, if my memory is correct. So one hypothesis is that there is no significant tonal difference. But another hypothesis is that the difference was not noticeable given the skill level of the players and the background noise and other sonic qualities of the "petting zoo".

:)
 

Kitarkus

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
676
Reaction score
15
I had always thought that "Aragon" was simply the name that Guild directed at the F-30's from the 50's and 60's. I'd assumed that some of the variations between guitars that you see....3 pc. neck vs. 1 pc....top species....and other differing bits had more to do with the era and/or factory in which a particular guitar was produced....not the difference between an "aragon f-30" or an "f-30 nt". Any web seller could post 'Aragon' or simply 'F-30' for any era F-30....I never pay much attention. Look at the guitar specs. Certainly among the older F-30's I would expect more unexpected variations in scale, nut width, and particularly neck shape characteristics.

Rayk...if I were you: rather than seeking aragon vs. std. vs. nt. vs. r etc......I'd figure out what type of neck, nut width, scale length, top species, era etc. that you are seeking in an F30....then direct your efforts towards finding an F-30 that meets the most of your specific list of desirable traits. This can be really difficult buying via the internet sight unseen (as you unfortunately already found)....but a lot of Guild guys here can likely direct you toward making a 'smart' decision...allowing you to better play the odds that a sight unseen guitar will meet your specific requirements. Your best shot at success is to (at least) determine a few of your 'must have' features...and stick to them.

Myself....particularly when I have a bad case of GAS...can find myself purchasing a guitar that has characteristics that differ from those very traits that I was seeking in a guitar in the first place. After the GAS subsides and with new guitar in hand....I often find myself still seeking another guitar with the characteristics that I had originally set out to find. Patience is difficult in the midst of a GAS attack.....but can really pay off in the form of ownership of a guitar that is truly 'yours'.

I bought that 1974 Guild F-30NT yesterday. I'll post more after I spend a little bit of time with it. My first reaction to this guitar (obviously...I bought it) is extremely positive. I went with the money in my pocket, however, I really was not GAS'ing for the guitar and was nearly certain that I would not actually buy it. After sitting with the guitar for a few minutes....I didn't even attempt to negotiate the price down. I plan to post more about the guitar after I can spend a bit more time with it....and yes I will post photos so that we all know that this actually happened :)

Guild is an interesting and quirky guitar manufacturer....likely a big part of why I'm drawn to them. I have found particularly among vintage Guilds (Westerly and prior)...any given guitar may not be exactly what you'd expected. Just when you think you know what the characteristics of a 'Westerly' or 'Hoboken' F-30 is....you find one that defies your expectations.
 
Last edited:

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
I had always thought that "Aragon" was simply the name that Guild directed at the F-30's from the 50's and 60's. I'd assumed that some of the variations between guitars that you see....3 pc. neck vs. 1 pc....top species....and other differing bits had more to do with the era and/or factory in which a particular guitar was produced....not the difference between an "aragon f-30" or an "f-30 nt". Any web seller could post 'Aragon' or simply 'F-30' for any era F-30....I never pay much attention. Look at the guitar specs. Certainly among the older F-30's I would expect more unexpected variations in scale, nut width, and particularly neck shape characteristics.

Rayk...if I were you: rather than seeking aragon vs. std. vs. nt. vs. r etc......I'd figure out what type of neck, nut width, scale length, top species, era etc. that you are seeking in an F30....then direct your efforts towards finding an F-30 that meets the most of your specific list of desirable traits. This can be really difficult buying via the internet sight unseen (as you unfortunately already found)....but a lot of Guild guys here can likely direct you toward making a 'smart' decision...allowing you to better play the odds that a sight unseen guitar will meet your specific requirements. Your best shot at success is to (at least) determine a few of your 'must have' features...and stick to them.

Myself....particularly when I have a bad case of GAS...can find myself purchasing a guitar that has characteristics that differ from those very traits that I was seeking in a guitar in the first place. After the GAS subsides and with new guitar in hand....I often find myself still seeking another guitar with the characteristics that I had originally set out to find. Patience is difficult in the midst of a GAS attack.....but can really pay off in the form of ownership of a guitar that is truly 'yours'.

I bought that 1974 Guild F-30NT yesterday. I'll post more after I spend a little bit of time with it. My first reaction to this guitar (obviously...I bought it) is extremely positive. I went with the money in my pocket, however, I really was not GAS'ing for the guitar and was nearly certain that I would not actually buy it. After sitting with the guitar for a few minutes....I didn't even attempt to negotiate the price down. I plan to post more about the guitar after I can spend a bit more time with it....and yes I will post photos so that we all know that this actually happened :)

Guild is an interesting and quirky guitar manufacturer....likely a big part of why I'm drawn to them. I have found particularly among vintage Guilds (Westerly and prior)...any given guitar may not be exactly what you'd expected. Just when you think you know what the characteristics of a 'Westerly' or 'Hoboken' F-30 is....you find one that defies your expectations.

No expectations , I like verity ! well wait me wants good tone from any configuration. Lol

Necks , nut and scales no big deal I’ll stay away from 12 fret .

Big body long scale and 1 11/16ths nut may cause some discomfort depending on string spacing .
Otherwise I’m good on the rest .

I like Adirondack tops only have one in my Blueridge dread .

I have rosewood B&S Guitars so I’m liking a hog one or two this time .

Still looking for that NH F50R Sunburst lol

Good advice though :)

I’d like to hear that 74 F30
 

tommym

Member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
894
Reaction score
315
The NH F30 Standard also has a slightly wider 2 5/32" string spacing at the bridge. This along with the 1 3/4" nut gives you a little more breathing room for fingerstyle.

Tommy
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
The NH F30 Standard also has a slightly wider 2 5/32" string spacing at the bridge. This along with the 1 3/4" nut gives you a little more breathing room for fingerstyle.

Tommy
Yeah , I liked that f30 I sent back felt pretty good all around .
 

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
Yeah , I liked that f30 I sent back felt pretty good all around .

Man those F30 Standards are really hard to beat for tone and price. I feel if Fender and New Hartford would have marketed that Standard line in a more visible way that they would have been taking over the Acoustic market.

TX
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
Man those F30 Standards are really hard to beat for tone and price. I feel if Fender and New Hartford would have marketed that Standard line in a more visible way that they would have been taking over the Acoustic market.

TX

Amen brother Tex :)
 

Kitarkus

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
676
Reaction score
15
Man those F30 Standards are really hard to beat for tone and price. I feel if Fender and New Hartford would have marketed that Standard line in a more visible way that they would have been taking over the Acoustic market.

TX

I could not agree with you more. That 2012 D-40 standard that I picked up sounds absolutely fantastic....and has a really fantastic neck. It was my first touch/feel of a NH Guild...and I couldn't be more impressed with it. At $799....it is absurdly great. I am a 1 11/16 nut guy. I really wish that I could get a NH standard F-30 with a 1 11/16" nut...now THAT would get my boat 'a rockin'.

I plan to write a bit about this Westerly F-30 that I picked up later after I've spent a bit more time with her...but. I have/had this notion that most of the Westerly's have a generally "chunky" neck. Most that I've owned or touched were somewhat (if not overly so) heavy guitars with chunky necks. Most also had a voice which defied the character of a heavy build. This 1974 F-30 nut width is most surely an 1 11/16 and this guitar is a 25.5" scale. I was really surprised....the 1974 F-30 neck is almost EXACTLY like the 2012 NH D-40....astonishingly similar. The string placement at the nut is identical between the two guitars...identical.
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
Huh , all this F30 talk we might need to get a write a new song on a f30 and record it ! Thread
Lol might be fun .
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I had always thought that "Aragon" was simply the name that Guild directed at the F-30's from the 50's and 60's. I'd assumed that some of the variations between guitars that you see....3 pc. neck vs. 1 pc....top species....and other differing bits had more to do with the era and/or factory in which a particular guitar was produced....not the difference between an "Aragon f-30" or an "f-30 nt".
Kitarkus< basically yes, early on Guild did routinely assign names to the models and the F30 was originally known as the "Aragon" (NOT "Argon", Ray, that's a noble gas [but I understand if your spell-checker is having you on again]. Aragon was a Spanish province like F50 Navarre and F40 Valencia)
The use of the names died off by the late '70's and the guitars were only called by the "model number" until Tacoma revived some of the old "names" when they introduced adi tops and bracing..the "Bluegrass" D40 and D50 got most of the attention around here.
Tacoma also revived the use of the "Aragon" name, with an Adi-topped F30.
To get a sitka top on an F30-sized body you needed to go to the Contemporary "CO" series.
They dropped the Contemporary series in New Hartford and introduced the "Standard" series as an economy alternative to the "Traditionals", and at that time the F30 "Aragon" retained the Adi top, whereas the "Standard" had sitka along with the other differences noted.
So since Tacoma at least, "F30 Aragon" means "Adi top" above all else, and that's why Ray narrowed his question to New Hartford builts.
Guild is an interesting and quirky guitar manufacturer....likely a big part of why I'm drawn to them.
I'm actually finding that more and more intriguing and enjoyable myself as I learn more and more.
I have found particularly among vintage Guilds (Westerly and prior)...any given guitar may not be exactly what you'd expected. Just when you think you know what the characteristics of a 'Westerly' or 'Hoboken' F-30 is....you find one that defies your expectations.
And speak of the devil, while I was trying to confirm my memory of Tacoma's specs, I stumbled across a reference to an M20-sized F30 (13.75" lower bout !) from '98-2000:
From here:
F-30 HR/M-20 SECOND VERSION (NO. 350-5300)- small body narrow waist body style, solid mahogany top, solid mahogany back/sides, round soundhole, 14/20-fret rosewood fingerboard with dot inlays, blackface headstock with Chesterfield and logo inlays, three-per-side chrome tuners, tortoise pickguard, available in Natural hand rubbed satin finish, case included, 13.75 in. body width, 24.75 in. scale, mfg. 1998-2000.
 
Last edited:

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
1,827
I have/had this notion that most of the Westerly's have a generally "chunky" neck. Most that I've owned or touched were somewhat (if not overly so) heavy guitars with chunky necks. Most also had a voice which defied the character of a heavy build. This 1974 F-30 nut width is most surely an 1 11/16 and this guitar is a 25.5" scale. I was really surprised....

I've now owned seven Westerlys from the '70s. Only one has had a somewhat chunky neck - and my "chunky" might be someone else's "slim"! The profile I've consistently come across from this era is kind of a shallow "D" shape, with a 1-11/16" nut. The overall neck profile on the "D" shape is wide enough that you don't feel cramped, and shallow enough to eliminate any chunkiness. It's a shape I absolutely love. And interestingly, like in your case with the New Hartford you purchased, I have a '92 Westerly D-6nt-hg with the exact same profile.

My other Guilds range from slightly larger to smaller in neck profile, but I find that shallow "D" shape to be the super sweet middle ground. That's the profile on my '73 F-30R & '74 F-40, and I'm guessing to would be the more prevalent neck profile to be found on early '70s Guilds.
 

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
Kitarkus< basically yes, early on Guild did routinely assign names to the models and the F30 was originally known as the "Aragon" (NOT "Argon", Ray, that's a noble gas [but I understand if your spell-checker is having you on again]. Aragon was a Spanish province like F50 Navarre and F40 Valencia)

If it is such a Noble gas then why aren't you referring to it as "Sir Argon" or "Lady Argon", Hmm?:unsure:

TX
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
I thought I had it wrong but looking at a few Of the Aragon guitars the missing “A “did not show itself to me huh ? But it’s a cool name is kind of like a dragons name ! Oh yeah !
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
If it is such a Noble gas then why aren't you referring to it as "Sir Argon" or "Lady Argon", Hmm?:unsure:
TX
Aside from sounding like characters from Star Trek: The Lost Generation; "Sir" is an honorific reserved for Knights, "Lady" is an honorific reserved for wives of Knights.
Whether your gas is noble or rot is largely a matter of diet.
I'm tagging out now.
Ray? He's all yours.
 

Rayk

Enlightened Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
5,769
Reaction score
1,172
Aside from sounding like characters from Star Trek: The Lost Generation; "Sir" is an honorific reserved for Knights, "Lady" is an honorific reserved for wives of Knights.
Whether your gas is noble or rot is largely a matter of diet.
I'm tagging out now.
Ray? He's all yours.

Bwahahahaha ! 😜
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
Man those F30 Standards are really hard to beat for tone and price. I feel if Fender and New Hartford would have marketed that Standard line in a more visible way that they would have been taking over the Acoustic market.

TX

My, probably incorrect, recollection is that the Standard series existed at a time when Guild was having trouble marketing everything they made. It wasn't just the Standard Series.
 

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
Aside from sounding like characters from Star Trek: The Lost Generation; "Sir" is an honorific reserved for Knights, "Lady" is an honorific reserved for wives of Knights.
Whether your gas is noble or rot is largely a matter of diet.
I'm tagging out now.
Ray? He's all yours.

Depending on which ancient texts you turn to for reference some consider Knights to Be Nobility and some do not. Basically Knights were not necessarily Nobility and Nobles were not necessarily Knights but from the late 12th century onward it is known that Nobles become Knights with increasing Frequency. Also as someone who has been certified for the better part of 2 decades to Tig weld numerous alloys from Stainless Steel, Monel, Chrome, Inconel, Titanium, and others which all require argon in order to complete the process I prefer you address it as "Sir Argon". That is all. :tongue-new: ROFLMAO! Just giving you a hard time Al!

TX
 
Top