New Guild Day - Guild AO-3CE - Orchestra Cutaway - Natural Finish (MIM)

PittPastor

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OK, the Arcos is here! [I have not decided yet to keep it, so feel free to chime in with opinions. I'm not emotionally invested. Yet.]

First impressions are pretty good. I will have an expert look at it before I make my final decision. I see a line that seems to not follow the flattop grain, and wonder if that might be a lacquer crack. But I'm not too concerned about that. Everything looks good to my eye -- except the action seems crazy high to me. I know my D40C is low (both because I like low action and because of the neck issue and cut saddle compensation) but this one just seems way too high.

It has (old) medium strings on it now. I will switch them out for lights. That will make the action seem better, but I still don't like how high it gets by twelfth fret. I imagine that can be fixed, but (correct me if I am wrong) that means shaving the bridge -- so I need to wait until I make the decision to keep Arcos first.

The electronics are a pleasant surprise. I like having a tuner, and EQ built in. I haven't plugged it in yet. I will do that later today, I hope.

The case is a soft case. Not crazy about that. But the foam packing in the soft case is solid. I think it protects it really well. The nice thing about it is it won't get nicked or scratched like a hard shell case does. But I really don't like the idea of zipping and unzipping every time I want to take it out to play. If I keep it, I probably will look into a hard shell case for it.

The arched back is hardly noticeable when I play it. That's a plus. I thought it was going to feel like trying to play an Ovation (something I never could get used to!)

The sound is brighter than my D40C. Surprisingly, tho, I feel the humming of the bass strings through the arched back more than I do on my D40C. It has a pretty good voice. I don't love the tone's balance -- but I don't want to focus on that too much. I am sure it will sound different with new strings. If I don't like the bright sound, Martin Retros are really good for making tones seem more woody, and I just happen to have a set here. So, I will try a couple of things before deciding.

OK, enough babble... you came here to see pictures! (I know you guys so well...)

Here we go:

In the "Hard Soft Case"
x97crbw.png


Front
nSU6sUk.png


Back. Arch not noticeable
gSo3Wwj.png


A look at the slotted bridge. Never had a guitar with one of these before
J7aMJo1.png


showing the action. Don't like how fast it rises
gnZgDNi.png


Electronics
oZuzO3u.png


And here's how you know it is a refurb:
R5OFzEW.png


Here is a closeup on the arch. IDK how to make this smaller!
QnmqLKb.jpg
 
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chazmo

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Pitt... That's good; definitely bring it to a tech/luthier. That action is unacceptable and looks practically unplayable, but it also looks like there's a ton of saddle to work with to get the guitar set up properly. Saddle height might not be the only adjustment this needs, however. So, again, a set up (or at least an inspection) by a pro is the right approach.

Good luck.

By the way, do you see "USED" stamped on the back of the headstock? Usually that was done to MIRC'd guitars. I can't tell from your pix.
 

PittPastor

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By the way, do you see "USED" stamped on the back of the headstock? Usually that was done to MIRC'd guitars. I can't tell from your pix.

I do not. But there is no number stamped there either. Maybe they didn't do that in Mexico in the Fender days, and that's why they didn't stamp it? IDK. But the fact that the only feature that indicated it is refurbed/used is a very removable label to me is odd.
 

chazmo

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No, I wouldn't expect a number. That ended after Corona (sadly). Interesting that there's no USED stamp. Best wishes.
 

adorshki

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That photo of the action height makes it look like the truss rod is completely loose,like it's showing a forward bow. first thing is to get the relief dialed in.
That compensated saddle looks pretty dang tall, too. I suspect you have a LOT of room to shave, there.
After dialing in the relief (flattening the neck) I'd measure the action at the 12th fret and assume Guild's last published spec of 6/64 on bass E and 4.5-6/64 on treble at 12th fret are good starting points.
You want to lower the saddle by 2/64 (1/32) for every 64th you want to lower the action.
If you can't lower the saddle enough to get down to an acceptable action for you (I'm assuming 4-5/64th on bass side) without leaving at least 1/8 of saddle height above bridge, I'd pack it up and ship it back.
Another detail is that the crown of the saddle should match the fretboard radius, for which the last published spec I know of was 12".
You luthier has the appropriate measuring tools for that.
Also check the nut slot depths/string clearance at 1st fret, those can make action feel unacceptably high if not deep enough, too.
I think you got advice on how to do that back in your D40 thread, if not, check good ol' Frets.com for background on how to do that.
Even US Guilds were shipped "high", at the top of the spec, out of the box, and I have a suspicion Mexico was nowhere near as thorough as the US factories were, let alone whatever MIRC may have felt was acceptable.
The assumption is that it's always easier to lower action to a customer's taste, than to raise it.
 

adorshki

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I do not. But there is no number stamped there either. Maybe they didn't do that in Mexico in the Fender days, and that's why they didn't stamp it? IDK. But the fact that the only feature that indicated it is refurbed/used is a very removable label to me is odd.

Yes, the stamp was to obliterate the headstock s/n, so it doesn't need it..also I think those "USED" stamps may have actually been Fender stamps as I think I've only seen 'em on Coronas, which had other warranty exchange inventory and "B" stock on hand prior to the MIRC liquidation. Primarily finish blems.
And if you pull off that MIRC label I'm sure the s/n will come off with it, which is the primary purpose.
A couple of years ago MIRC was able to tell a member exactly what they did to their guitar from that number, too, as they were the first buyer from the outfit MIRC sold it to.
Don't know how long they keep those records, though, since the return window from their dealers is limited, too, or was at the time at least.
 

dreadnut

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One look at that action and my vote would be to send it back. Probably not worth investing in the repairs as it's not American made. My $.02
 

chazmo

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Yes, the stamp was to obliterate the headstock s/n, so it doesn't need it..also I think those "USED" stamps may have actually been Fender stamps as I think I've only seen 'em on Coronas, which had other warranty exchange inventory and "B" stock on hand prior to the MIRC liquidation. Primarily finish blems.
And if you pull off that MIRC label I'm sure the s/n will come off with it, which is the primary purpose.
A couple of years ago MIRC was able to tell a member exactly what they did to their guitar from that number, too, as they were the first buyer from the outfit MIRC sold it to.
Don't know how long they keep those records, though, since the return window from their dealers is limited, too, or was at the time at least.

Al, you got that kind of wrong about the headstock branded stamp. I don't know whether it was MIRC or Guild that stamped USED on the headstock, but since Corona, there've only been USED stamps on the MIRC'd guitars. As noted, they did obliterate the factory s/n on the paper label (by sticking one on top of it).
 

Nuuska

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Hello

It looks as if the neck is about straight up to 10th fret and the bow is in short area 10-14. I was using paper edge against my screen. In my book that IS a Problem. But I am not luthier. I only adjusted some 500 guitars action in music store way back then, but they were all evenly bowed. This one seems complicated.

Other than that - it is pretty.
 
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geoguy

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You could buy a slide, & learn to play the "My New Guitar is Folding Up on Itself" blues. :tongue-new:

I'd be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't need a neck reset, &/or a truss rod repair.

I'd be astonished if a guitar shop sent it out like that . . . less so if it was sold by an individual.
 

txbumper57

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That thing has a wicked neck bow in it not to mention the off center splice of the neck wood itself when looking at it from the back. It looks as if it had full tension on it and the neck possibly wasn't dried completely and then the bow became permanent. Yes you have plenty of saddle to shave but once you shave it it is not in the condition you received it in and probably no longer eligible for a return and refund. To the best of my knowledge these guitars did not have a Nitro finish. I believe it is some form of poly which makes that "crack" you mentioned almost not repairable without there being traces of the repair left behind. Honestly I would send it back, Get a full refund, and look for another guitar. These things sold new for between $300-$450 MAP so any repairs are really not worth it in terms of value. Best to have a better starting platform in my opinion that you can enjoy right away without having to sink money into it that you will never recoup. I wouldn't even waste a new set of strings on it. Just my opinion.

TX
 

chazmo

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You guys are probably right, but I honestly think it's a little alarmist to make a diagnosis based on those pictures. It may just need some simple setup.

However, caution is the order of the day here. :)
 

davismanLV

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Yeah, action looks crazy high. Remember the formula is: Take the amount you want to lower it at the 12th fret, and take DOUBLE that amount off the bottom of the saddle!! Suddenly, that saddle isn't very tall any more. Plus, if you're modifying it, you're keeping it. I'd be hesitant to invest in repairs or to keep. Just one opinion.
 

adorshki

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You guys are probably right, but I honestly think it's a little alarmist to make a diagnosis based on those pictures. It may just need some simple setup.

However, caution is the order of the day here. :)

In the same spirit, I forgot to mention that what looks like a serious flaw/severe forward bow of the neck mightbe exaggerated by a possible "fisheye lens" effect of the camera?
 

Nuuska

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In the same spirit, I forgot to mention that what looks like a serious flaw/severe forward bow of the neck mightbe exaggerated by a possible "fisheye lens" effect of the camera?


Hi

I strongly disagree - fisheye picture would have about everything more or less curved. In the picture of PittPastor neck looks straight from nut to about 10th - then comes bow @ 10-14 - and then it is outside picture - at the same time the strings are straight - just put a piece of paper-edge on your screen to verify.

Time to hit the hay - good night - hyvää yötä.
 

geoguy

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I just looked back at another thread, & realized that the OP had linked the Reverb ad that described this instrument. Most of the description was copied/pasted from other on-line sources, but the ad included the following snippets of text that appear to have originated with the seller:

"Upon very close inspection we could not find a thing out of place on this instrument, it is Minty Mint"

and

"This guitar has been thoroughly inspected and was given a pro set-up . . ."

Both of those statements are hard to believe. I'd take that seller up on their seven-day return policy. And I'd probably argue with them about their re-stocking fee, in this case.

edit: Coincidentally, none of the photos in that Reverb ad depict the string action height. And I'd also ask them to pay for the return shipping. Measure the string action height at the 12th fret, & compare it to the ordinary ranges to see how out of line it actually is. And if you try lowering the saddle height before deciding what to do, use a different saddle blank (so as to keep the one the seller provided, unaltered; his shop policies indicate that the guitar can only be returned in the exact condition in which he shipped it).
 
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Rayk

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Hate it if it’s a return you sure are trying hard and have to give ya praise for that :)
 

PittPastor

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OK, thank you one and all!

Sorry I haven't replied, but I actually was at Stuart Day's shop (the Luthier). He was in the shop and had some time, so I hot-footed it over.

Summary is the guitar is structurally fine. (He liked the sound of the guitar. Commented on it twice.) The bow in the neck was due to the tension rod being almost completely undone. Thankfully, setting the tension correctly took the bow out and greatly reduced the action. After looking it over inside and out, he tells me that all it needs is a set-up.

I'm going to play it for a few days and see how it feels. I am thinking I will probably end up keeping it, at which time, I will have Stuart do a full set-up.

Issues he found and we discussed:

  • The saddle leans a little bit forward. So, the saddle is either a little too thin, or the slot in the bridge is a little too wide. Either way, the fix is one of two options: A) replace the saddle with a new one (bone this time) that is the right thickness or B) add a veneer to the slot to keep the saddle in place better. I'm leaning towards A since it also benefits the over all tone -- although I do have to remember this is a $300-something guitar. So, that might change my mind. Right now, tho, I'm thinking of replacing it with bone.
  • One fret stand a little high. This isn't creating any buzzing problems currently, but it could as we drop the action, so he will try to get it to reset, and he will file it if necessary.
  • Slight bump in the fretboard. I didn't see that one, but he did. And he says he will sand it smooth and even when he does the setup.


That was all he saw during the examination. But, it looks like from a structural standpoint, the Archos is fine. I'll keep everyone posted.
 

Rayk

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OK, thank you one and all!

Sorry I haven't replied, but I actually was at Stuart Day's shop (the Luthier). He was in the shop and had some time, so I hot-footed it over.

Summary is the guitar is structurally fine. (He liked the sound of the guitar. Commented on it twice.) The bow in the neck was due to the tension rod being almost completely undone. Thankfully, setting the tension correctly took the bow out and greatly reduced the action. After looking it over inside and out, he tells me that all it needs is a set-up.

I'm going to play it for a few days and see how it feels. I am thinking I will probably end up keeping it, at which time, I will have Stuart do a full set-up.

Issues he found and we discussed:

  • The saddle leans a little bit forward. So, the saddle is either a little too thin, or the slot in the bridge is a little too wide. Either way, the fix is one of two options: A) replace the saddle with a new one (bone this time) that is the right thickness or B) add a veneer to the slot to keep the saddle in place better. I'm leaning towards A since it also benefits the over all tone -- although I do have to remember this is a $300-something guitar. So, that might change my mind. Right now, tho, I'm thinking of replacing it with bone.
  • One fret stand a little high. This isn't creating any buzzing problems currently, but it could as we drop the action, so he will try to get it to reset, and he will file it if necessary.
  • Slight bump in the fretboard. I didn't see that one, but he did. And he says he will sand it smooth and even when he does the setup.


That was all he saw during the examination. But, it looks like from a structural standpoint, the Archos is fine. I'll keep everyone posted.

Ahhh good deal :)
 
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