Does anyone else think Oxnard Guild's are Over Priced?

Westerly Wood

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No, not overpriced. The ones I've played were well made, great sounding guitars. I don't think it's possible to build that kind of acoustic guitar in the USA for less and make a profit. I really think it's that simple.

good point.
 

adorshki

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They do sound pretty good, though, fwiw. If someone is interested in one I'd say get the mahogany/natural finish and not the burst. The burst is cheap varnish type finish and it really smells bad.
I doubt it's the 'burst itself since it's sprayed on prior to sealing under finish.
If it's the varnish, they're (Oxnard M20's) ALL varnish finished.
But I guess it's possible the burst reacts with the varnish in a non-olfactorily advantageous way.

Allow me to introduce you to previous references to similar issues:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?176901-Do-you-smell-your-guitars/page4
 

adorshki

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IDK. Not wanting to cast stones at the company who is trying to save Guild... But, it used to be you could buy a Guild instead of a Martin and have a lot of extra money in your pocket left for other things.
Now... Guild's seem every bit as much as a Martin -- and maybe even more. I am just thinking if I were trying to woo the masses away from their Martin (or Taylor) obsession, I might come in less than -- not the same price as.

Going back to the root question, and for the sake of trying to present a "balanced viewpoint" after my input about warranty, I just came across a post this morning that reminded me there's another element in the total package these days:
the case.
"Back in the day" the case was not always part of the package, it was extra cost.
BY the time I got my D25 it was part of the package, but it was optional on their lowest cost entry-level model the D4. It was one of the ways they kept the price down on that model.
In the meantime I see they supply a real wood humidified case even with the entry level M20 these days.
I'd forgotten about that, but I'd definitely value that more highly than the gig bags supplied with a lot of instruments these days.
 

PittPastor

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"Back in the day" the case was not always part of the package, it was extra cost.
In the meantime I see they supply a real wood humidified case even with the entry level M20 these days.
I'd forgotten about that, but I'd definitely value that more highly than the gig bags supplied with a lot of instruments these days.

That's a good point. I had to pay for the case for my D40C in 1981.

Now that case on the M-20 probably goes $150 or so, right? That does help a bit. I'm really amazed that the Seagull, for example, doesn't even make a hard shell case!
 

adorshki

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Now that case on the M-20 probably goes $150 or so, right? That does help a bit. I'm really amazed that the Seagull, for example, doesn't even make a hard shell case!
I think that $150.00 was the list price of their "standard" (as opposed to deluxe) HSC in like '96, so factor in inflation and the built-in humidifier, and I'd say sure, $150.00 easy.
RE Seagull not offering a hard case at all, seems to be the trend these days, to try to keep price down wherever possible. I think all the MIC Guilds come with "reinforced" gig bags these days, too.
I suspect they would rationalize that by pointing out there is a pretty health aftermarket supply of generic hard cases if somebody really wanted one.
 

kostask

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Seagull's parent company, Godin, offers the Forte cases which are made of some sort of molded, foamed plastic material on the outside, and a flocked material inside. They are very strong, and their thermal insulating properties are excellent. They do come in a variety of sizes. including dreadnought size. They are also far lighter than traditional guitar hard cases.
 

chazmo

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Interesting point about the new cases, Al. I haven't seen one in person, but the new Guild HumiCase cases look very nice to me, especially with the built in humidity control. Very smart.
 

jmascis

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Interesting point about the new cases, Al. I haven't seen one in person, but the new Guild HumiCase cases look very nice to me, especially with the built in humidity control. Very smart.

They're nice. But you can only add humidity, so it's not ideal.
 

InvisibleWren

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I'm going to call back to earlier in this thread with people comparing the price of the D-40 Traditional to the Standard D-18. I don't think this is a fair comparison. Comparing the D 40 Natural to the D-18 would be fair since they have similar specs and are the first step up from the all Mahogany series (discount Martin's 17 series for the moment). The "Traditional" model is more akin to Martin's D-18 Authentic 1939 which retails for $5500 on Sweetwater. Either way there's no real apples to apples comparison, but feeling torqued because the "Traditional" model is more than a Standard Series D-18 is a little bit silly.

Overall, I think Guild's prices are fair. Do I WISH they were lower? Sure. Am I angry? Hell no.
 

AZLiberty

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I can't imagine that building a factory is California is much better.

Cordoba's California factory is walking distance from Larrivee. If Jean can build a competitively priced guitar in California then so can Cordoba.

It's about the last place I would build a factory mind you given the regulatory climate, but it does have very good access to transit. (air hubs, major interstates)

The market is absolutely crowded by quality American made instruments. Martin, Larrivee, Breedlove, Taylor (especially the re-voiced ones), Rainsong (if you like Carbon Fiber), the newish Gibson J-15 is a very nice guitar assuming one doesn't mind the fact that it sounds like a Gibson, etc.

So where is the value proposition? Other than nostalgia for the 60s and 70s, why should someone buying a new guitar pick an Oxnard built Guild over a new Martin, Larrivee, or Breedlove? Or spend that money on 3 vintage RI built ones?

The only real discriminator is the 12" radius on the fretboard. I was really hoping they would go with 16" like on the imports as I struggle with anything tighter than 15, so the new US built guilds are out for me anyway.

The imports on the other hand, compete very well against anything else coming out of southeast Asia.

Pretty sure my next guitar will be another Martin or Larrivee, or one of the new CH-PA Rainsongs. Like the OP, I think the new Oxnard Guilds are priced over the market.
 

bobouz

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the newish Gibson J-15 is a very nice guitar assuming one doesn't mind the fact that it sounds like a Gibson, etc.

I don't mind one bit. In fact, the dry & percussive tone of many slope-shouldered Gibsons is frequently what works best with my fingerpicking style. The J-15 was the last new USA-made guitar I've purchased, when they were initially released at the beginning of 2014 - paid $1275. Full nitro finish, dovetail neckjoint, solid woods throughout, and very tight workmanship on this one.

With the way market prices are currently trending, and with so many excellent to near-mint used guitars being readily available, I rather doubt that I'll be buying new again. But I certainly do agree that if Larrivee can do it in this market, so can Guild-Cordoba.
 
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Just ordered a new M-20, hope I like it, arrives Friday. I was on the set at Fox 2 weeks ago and the other guitar player on the show brought along a 1942 00-17 to noodle on between takes. It was killer of course but for 3K they should be. I immediately got the all mahogany GAS. Looked hard at the new 00-15M's then saw the new M-20 and took a chance. FWIW I think the new Oxnard Guilds are fairly priced when compared to the competition. A new Collings or Santa Cruz would be way more.
 
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Just ordered a new M-20, hope I like it, arrives Friday. I was on the set at Fox 2 weeks ago and the other guitar player on the show brought along a 1942 00-17 to noodle on between takes. It was killer of course but for 3K they should be. I immediately got the all mahogany GAS. Looked hard at the new 00-15M's then saw the new M-20 and took a chance. FWIW I think the new Oxnard Guilds are fairly priced when compared to the competition. A new Collings or Santa Cruz would be way more.

I sincerely hope that works out for you and am looking forward to your feedback. This thread has been a bit of a bummer for me, which started off with a title that warned of what was coming. I'm really pulling for Oxnard. I have my sights set on an F-55 Maple from Oxnard, but some of the feedback has left me feeling extremely cautious. Maybe I should have bought that D-55 Brazilian Rosewood anniversary model #10 of 50 when I played it in Wheaton, MD. It ended up in Txbumpers stable and I'm happy for him. I didn't want another dread and honestly I was unaware/unfamiliar at the time, of the reputations of the manufacturing facilities. Like I said, maybe I should have bought it and given up my desire to buy a maple jumbo. I just don't have the time to visit the websites that deal with the resale market. Maybe when I retire.
 

PittPastor

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FWIW I think the new Oxnard Guilds are fairly priced when compared to the competition. A new Collings or Santa Cruz would be way more.

I guess my question -- and I don't know the answer to it -- is: "Who is Guild's competition?" IDK. Seems Martin and Taylor are the "It" guitars. Gibson is living on rep, and that is dropping fast... Breedlove and Larrivee seem to be the "niche after Martin-Taylor" marketplace.

Larivee's D40 is priced less than Guild's D40 ($300 less MSRP). But they're close. Breedlove -- well, they're hard to figure out. I've only seen used ones in the wild, and their webpage confuses me so it's hard to do an apples to apple comparison.

But, FWIW, I would not put Guild in the category or Collings or Santa Cruz. I consider those to be a higher end market. I would expect to pay more. And I would expect the quality of build to be higher.

This thread has been a bit of a bummer for me, which started off with a title that warned of what was coming. I'm really pulling for Oxnard.

Well, as the OP, I hate to be a bummer. FWIW, I think we're all pulling for Oxnard. It's just, to me, Guild was always that mystique company: "Better sound than a Martin, but less money." (The first part, as always, is arguable.)

Cordoba is not known for being a high cost Nylon string guitar. So, I was surprised where they decided to place the Made-In-America Guilds. I wonder if the strategy isn't to deliberately price the MIA a little higher and then sell the MIC product for the real profit, because they look real good by comparison? IDK.

It's not my business. Just watching and wondering from afar...
 

fronobulax

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I wonder if the strategy isn't to deliberately price the MIA a little higher and then sell the MIC product for the real profit, because they look real good by comparison? IDK.

It's not my business. Just watching and wondering from afar...

The not-MIA Guilds were the only income stream Cordoba had from Guild during the time it took to set up the factory, get all the approvals, hire and train staff and then actually produce guitars. It would not surprise me at all if they were always expected to produce the majority of Guild's revenue. New Hartford Guilds did make a profit, but there was always this sense that FMIC was making Guilds in NH as a prestige thing and not just as a revenue stream. I expect that will also be true of Cordoba until they get to the point that they are making and selling 5,000 MIA Guilds a year.
 

marcellis

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Córdoba should aim directly at Taylor in the 12-string market.
It can actually compete and win in that niche.
 
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davismanLV

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You seem really eager to categorize all the builders and put them in a convenient NICHE for you to process and evaluate. Life is usually not that convenient or that easily categorized. Maybe just be a little more FLUID with your categorization of all these amazing instruments. Evaluate them on their merits and their sound and quality and stop worrying about who is on top of WHOM in the big PILE of guitar manufacturers. Every guitar is worth what you'll pay for it. If it sounds like the best guitar ever, then.... you didn't pay too much did you? And quit worrying about where everyone falls in the BIG PICTURE. That's all I have to say on this over belabored subject. Stay calm..... :very_drunk:
 
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davismanLV

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Hey guild-1979-d40 just let the company slowly progress and grow and show us what they can do. Don't let a whiner who wants to categorize everyone and everything worry you. Stay calm and let's see how it all pans out. I have high hopes for Guild. If it ends up that they disappoint, then I'll deal with that when it happens. But for now..... just watch and see. Not everything in life happens according to our own personal timeline or falls into convenient little niches for us to judge by. We will see.... I have faith at this point.

And you can ALWAYS buy a USED Guild!!! :encouragement:
 
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