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Thread: Does anyone else think Oxnard Guild's are Over Priced?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Right, but I don't want to ship it and I don't think there IS an authorized warranty center in the Bay Area right now.
    So who'm I gonna take it to just to get the confirmation it's a build flaw?
    The one I was counting on and who gave the original evaluation, CB Perkins in right here in San Jose, decided it wasn't worth the hassle anymore a while back.
    I haven't completely dropped the idea, but it's probably going to be a wash in cost if I do have to ship it anywhere, with all the stress of worrying about possible damage during shipping thrown in besides.
    I figure it's gonna go $200.00 at least, at Silicon Valley prices, because of the UST.
    That'll include guarantee of expert finish touch-up if needed, which was one of the reasons Perkins wanted to "wait and watch" all those years ago.
    And if you'll notice, that's just one of 3, although I don't really expect any problems with the dreadnoughts if they haven't manifested by now.
    I do have a local guy in mind and ideally I'd approach 'em about reimbursing him.
    I just have higher priorities on my plate for Saturdays for the last couple of years, the only day it's really feasible to go shopping for a place to take my (or even Guild's) money.
    And it's finally deep enough to need the repair, just noted about 3 months ago the bridge is starting to lean forward enough that a straightedge goes above the bridge.
    If I didn't have such reservations about shipping I'd probably already have contacted you and Tom at Jacobs Guitar.
    I understand, Al. As an aside, I'm amazed that there is no service center in your area. Speaks volumes.
    Dave


    1989 D25 - 2013 DD6-RCE
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  2. #22
    Super Moderator chazmo's Avatar
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    Yeah, Al, right on about the warrantee concerns. You know if you buy a new Martin or Taylor you're covered. Period. Guild has to compete with that.

    I'm sure CMG will step up eventually and be every bit as capable and willing as Guild of the past, but I think it will take a long time. I think a great deal is riding on the success of the new products, which sadly is a bit of a vicious cycle since buying new implies faith in the company.

    It is astonishing to me as well that there is no certified Guild service area in Silicon Valley. How is that possible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Neal
    I am going to hang onto this little F-20 and play it as a reminder that life is sometimes rough, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the damage you accrue along the way defines who you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by marcellis
    Growing old is a bitch.
    Guild 12-strings:
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    1994 JF-30-12Bld (Westerly),
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    2014 Orpheum 12 OOO SHRW (New Hartford)

    Non-Guild 12s:
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Right, but I don't want to ship it and I don't think there IS an authorized warranty center in the Bay Area right now.
    So who'm I gonna take it to just to get the confirmation it's a build flaw?
    The one I was counting on and who gave the original evaluation, CB Perkins in right here in San Jose, decided it wasn't worth the hassle anymore a while back.
    I haven't completely dropped the idea, but it's probably going to be a wash in cost if I do have to ship it anywhere, with all the stress of worrying about possible damage during shipping thrown in besides.
    I figure it's gonna go $200.00 at least, at Silicon Valley prices, because of the UST.
    That'll include guarantee of expert finish touch-up if needed, which was one of the reasons Perkins wanted to "wait and watch" all those years ago.
    And if you'll notice, that's just one of 3, although I don't really expect any problems with the dreadnoughts if they haven't manifested by now.
    I do have a local guy in mind and ideally I'd approach 'em about reimbursing him.
    I just have higher priorities on my plate for Saturdays for the last couple of years, the only day it's really feasible to go shopping for a place to take my (or even Guild's) money.
    And it's finally deep enough to need the repair, just noted about 3 months ago the bridge is starting to lean forward enough that a straightedge goes above the bridge.
    If I didn't have such reservations about shipping I'd probably already have contacted you and Tom at Jacobs Guitar.
    I didnít not read to the end of this thread so it might have been discussed?
    Anyway Al the UST is no big deal though Iím not up on Guild models most simply unplugged from the preamp also the UST can be slid back the down cable hole through the bridge . Iíve done it a few times myself .

    Also I wonder can you not just have your preferred Luthier confirm the repair ? Just call them up Iím sure if they are willing you can work something out ?

  4. #24
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post
    For the record, that is Ren's opinion. His tenure at Guild was not without conflict and there are other sides to the story.
    No doubt. And I don't pretend to understand all of the ins and outs of Guitar making in general nor Guild in particular.

    But, intuitively, I understand that the materials are actually a pretty small part of a guitar's cost. The difference in material cost between a Guild F-40 and an Olson SJ may seem significant, but the material alone certainly does not justify a 1000% cost differential. You are paying a bit for the name. You are paying for the elusive, but -- oh-so-important -- tone, which means design and craftsmanship. But, mainly, this comes down to: Time. It takes Jim Olson a lot more time to make a guitar than a Guild Factory. And time is one very important aspect of production because time is finite.

    So, if you are trying to make a guitar cost less, and you have trimmed the material costs as much as you can, then it does come down to the simple math that determines overhead. How much something costs is a combination of Overhead, salary, and materials. Add your desired mark-up and that's your wholesale cost.

    If your process is broken, then it costs you more in man hours than a process that isn't. I'm not sure what the process problems were, but I've experienced broken process in my business and its nuts how expensive it is -- and you can't get anyone to pay attention.

    But, where you locate the factory has to be a huge hidden cost that I think catches people by surprise. A lot of owners want their plant nearby, and that's understandable. It's their company. And, if they like to sunny climate of California, that seems like a natural choice. But California is one of the most expensive states in the country to do business in. The real estate is insanely high. The regulations are very expensive to maintain compliance with... shipping in and out of there is not simple.

    If it were me, and I were starting a guitar company, I'd put it in Austin Texas. Near a vibrant music community. Very Pro-Business regulations. Easier to get people to move in because of the cost of living index. Center of the country so shipping anywhere is simple.

    But, that's just me...
    ----------------------------------
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  5. #25
    Senior Member dreadnut's Avatar
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    If I had the money for a new acoustic guitar right now I would probably get a Collings.

    Hey, I've already got two nice Guilds!
    "The air's as still as the throttle on a funeral train." John Prine

    '76 D-25M
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  6. #26
    Super Moderator Default's Avatar
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    Fwiw, l think you are overestimating the number of people willing to relocate. If we have learned anything from Guild and it's Gypsy existance, it that people are not willing to move. Of all the factory moves that l know of, there were only two craftspeople who were willing to relocate. One was Gilbert Dias and the other was a junior guy from New Hartford. And not everyone is sold on Texas as a destination. I've visited Texas and there are a bunch of people whom l like and respect very much, but I'll never move there. I would think any labor you would get would be already there.
    "Steve, you are a man of many goats."~ capnjuan

    "Alternatively, you could just go the ultra-relic route with it. Basically go for a look that says the amp was on fire and they put it out using belt sanders."
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  7. #27
    Just a note. I know a lot of people reference Ren Ferguson when talking bout New Hartford and I have no doubt that his influences were felt there especially in the custom shop and Orpheum series guitars. Lets not forget though that Ren didn't even join Guild until early to middle of 2012. Guild was already Producing top notch instruments with all of the "Magic" a lot of us feel they had going in New Hartford for over 3 years prior to Ren coming on board. The Acoustic Standard series was already in production as well as some of the GSR Special Run Acoustics and some of the GSR Special Run Electrics. They had also been in Full production of their Traditional line of High Quality Acoustics including the Adirondack topped D40 and D50 Bluegrass series and the Flagship models such as the D55, F50/F50R, and F412/F512 among others long before Rens Arrival.

    TX
    Guilds
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    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S. SFIV-3 P90 w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW#10 of 50, 2003 X160 R.B., 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn-2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2012 F50R Burst, 2012 F50R DTAR, 2013 F512 Burst, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS

    Amps
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    93 Sequoia

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by txbumper57 View Post
    Just a note. I know a lot of people reference Ren Ferguson when talking bout New Hartford and I have no doubt that his influences were felt there especially in the custom shop and Orpheum series guitars. Lets not forget though that Ren didn't even join Guild until early to middle of 2012. Guild was already Producing top notch instruments with all of the "Magic" a lot of us feel they had going in New Hartford for over 3 years prior to Ren coming on board. The Acoustic Standard series was already in production as well as some of the GSR Special Run Acoustics and some of the GSR Special Run Electrics. They had also been in Full production of their Traditional line of High Quality Acoustics including the Adirondack topped D40 and D50 Bluegrass series and the Flagship models such as the D55, F50/F50R, and F412/F512 among others long before Rens Arrival.

    TX
    I agree. Let us not forget the old 'sales vs. manufacturing' sides to any company. Ren may have the best of intentions and wish to put out the best product at any cost(s), however, the bean counters and sales folks within any organization are virtually always at odds with the manufacturing side....for any variety of reasons. Making the best products....or even a good product....is not always conducive to profitability or sales.

  9. #29
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    ... shipping in and out of there is not simple
    Actually:
    "The WTC Oxnard mission is to encourage expansion of world trade activities in Ventura County and vicinity, to foster greater participation in world trade and to attract increased international business to Ventura.
    The Port of Hueneme is one of the most productive and efficient commercial trade gateways for niche cargo on the West Coast. The Port is governed by 5 locally elected Port Commissioners. The Port moves $8 billion in goods each year and consistently ranks among the top ten U.S. ports for automobiles and fresh produce. Port operations support the community by bringing $1.1 billion in economic activity and creating 10,226 trade-related jobs. Trade through the Port of Hueneme generates more than $69 million in annual state and local taxes which funds vital community services."
    From here:
    https://www.wtca.org/world-trade-center-oxnard

    With reference to you earlier post about Cordoba's classicals, that means they have very little added freight overhead to get those guitars (and the MIC Flat-tops) off the boat and into local warehousing for distribution.
    Not to mention the raw materials like rosewoods and mahogany that are most cheaply shipped from South America and Asia to a west coast port.
    And even more truck and rail hubs are just a stone's throw down the road in greater Los Angeles, where Fender's managed to scratch out a pretty good living since the '50s.
    And Oxnard real estate is a bargain compared to LA, and the climate is very stable for year-round production of the US-built line.
    No shortage of labor in California, either.
    There's gotta be reasons Taylor and Larrivee have plants in Oxnard, too, and it ain't 'cause the owners wanna live there.
    (Nice as it is, I bet I'd be real happy there, if there was work in my industry)
    Last edited by adorshki; 10-27-2017 at 06:33 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  10. #30
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazmo View Post
    It is astonishing to me as well that there is no certified Guild service area in Silicon Valley. How is that possible?
    A verification check on Guild's website confirms they still have no list of authorized service centers.
    They still recommend taking the guitar to the shop where it was purchased for service support.
    There are 2 dealers within 25 miles of me, Guitar Showcase where I actually bought it, and Gelb Music in Redwood City.
    Neither one of them is actually a full repair location like Perkins was.
    So even if they take the guitar, I know they'll farm out the work, at which point I'm back to my original concern: who knows who's gonna put their hands on my baby or how it'll get handled in transit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayk View Post
    Anyway Al the UST is no big deal though I’m not up on Guild models most simply unplugged from the preamp also the UST can be slid back the down cable hole through the bridge . I’ve done it a few times myself
    Well that's encouraging at least, I assumed it was gonna have to come out from the top.
    Still, I have one of these which is actually a dual source, there's a soundhole mic as well and I have no idea how the transducers are connected to the preamp itself (soldered or with connectors):

    And that still leaves the finish touch-up question "open".
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayk View Post
    Also I wonder can you not just have your preferred Luthier confirm the repair ? Just call them up I’m sure if they are willing you can work something out ?
    Well that's till my ideal solution but a lot of folks aren't really interested in warranty because it just doesn't pay very well, and slowly too.
    "My guy" is only the guy who did the last re-fret on my D25, I don't need a whole lot of guitar work done.
    But he was a warranty shop for Guild (Fender) when he was just getting started and mentioned that back then at least, another cost was that they (like everybody else at the time) also expected an authorized service center to carry a pretty good volume of parts spares.
    It's actually kind of hassle to be a warranty repair shop, probably why Perkins dropped out, and neither they nor Keith Holland ("my guy") really need the work.
    But Keith'll be the guy I consult with when I get around to it, sometime in the next year or so.
    I will ask Cordoba if they'll consider treating him as an authorized service center, can't possibly get the answer I'd like if I don't ask.
    Last edited by adorshki; 10-27-2017 at 07:39 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

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