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Thread: Does anyone else think Oxnard Guild's are Over Priced?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    What about those of us feeling a wee bit abandoned on the lifetime warranty we paid for?
    I got bridge lift on my F65ce which was absolutely confirmed as warrantable by the local authorized shop way back in about '09 or so, but was advised to "watch and monitor" at the time.
    Now I'm not so sure I'd want Cordoba to do the work even if they did accept it, as they have absolutely zero experience in a/e's with a built-in preamp and I worry about the potential need for soldering work when R&R'ing the UST.
    Al, if you pursued the warranty claim, and Guild approved it, you could have the work done at a factory-authorized Guild repair center. Not at Cordoba.
    Dave


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  2. #12
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    IDK. Not wanting to cast stones at the company who is trying to save Guild... But, it used to be you could buy a Guild instead of a Martin and have a lot of extra money in your pocket left for other things.

    Now... Guild's seem every bit as much as a Martin -- and maybe even more. I am just thinking if I were trying to woo the masses away from their Martin (or Taylor) obsession, I might come in less than -- not the same price as.
    Pitt, you weren't around a few years back when, as New Hartford's first production started shipping, Fender announced an explicit philosophy of attempting to re-position the brand as "boutique build quality" at less then boutique pricing.
    As Chaz mentioned they couldn't build enough guitars to fill the needs of the traditional outlet Guitar Center anyway, so they needed to maximize the profit per unit as they were never going to make it up on volume.
    However that also led to a problem of new Guilds being extremely hard to find just to try out.
    Obviously the brand positioning attempt didn't work the way Fender hoped it would, but it helps explain when and why Guild's direction changed.
    In fairness Cordoba may be attempting to steer back somewhat to the "Everyman's Guild" model by beginning domestic production at the low end of the price scale with M20's.
    Bear in mind also that for a maker, the real price battles these days are probably more in the offshore built product where it's been said around here for several years that Guild ranks extremely high in the price-to-quality equation.
    That's actually where the lion's share of Cordoba's previous income has been derived, and for them building domestic flattops has to be viewed as attempting to capture/retain some share in a niche that is typically buying American for several specific reasons, and understands the higher costs involved, and is willing to pay the premium.
    At that level a couple of hundred dollars of difference at list price between two makers is probably not deal breaker especially if the Guild is demonstrably superior in some critical (to a given buyer) aspects, and especially after "Street pricing" kicks in.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  3. #13
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dapmdave View Post
    Al, if you pursued the warranty claim, and Guild approved it, you could have the work done at a factory-authorized Guild repair center. Not at Cordoba.
    Right, but I don't want to ship it and I don't think there IS an authorized warranty center in the Bay Area right now.
    So who'm I gonna take it to just to get the confirmation it's a build flaw?
    The one I was counting on and who gave the original evaluation, CB Perkins in right here in San Jose, decided it wasn't worth the hassle anymore a while back.
    I haven't completely dropped the idea, but it's probably going to be a wash in cost if I do have to ship it anywhere, with all the stress of worrying about possible damage during shipping thrown in besides.
    I figure it's gonna go $200.00 at least, at Silicon Valley prices, because of the UST.
    That'll include guarantee of expert finish touch-up if needed, which was one of the reasons Perkins wanted to "wait and watch" all those years ago.
    And if you'll notice, that's just one of 3, although I don't really expect any problems with the dreadnoughts if they haven't manifested by now.
    I do have a local guy in mind and ideally I'd approach 'em about reimbursing him.
    I just have higher priorities on my plate for Saturdays for the last couple of years, the only day it's really feasible to go shopping for a place to take my (or even Guild's) money.
    And it's finally deep enough to need the repair, just noted about 3 months ago the bridge is starting to lean forward enough that a straightedge goes above the bridge.
    If I didn't have such reservations about shipping I'd probably already have contacted you and Tom at Jacobs Guitar.
    Last edited by adorshki; 10-27-2017 at 12:23 AM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Westerly Wood View Post
    ...plenty of Westerlys out there at really good prices vs used Martins and Gibsons. But I would not know tons as I never buy new.
    I'm also strictly a used buyer, but newer used. I see this used Gibson SJ200 up on ebay for $3599 (and it doesn't even have an ebony fingerboard). My gorgeous Guild 'counterpart' out of New Hartford: less than half that!

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  5. #15
    Most of my New Hartford made Guilds were purchased New from current Guild dealers with full warranty and all the perks of buying new. If I was as confident in Oxnard's capabilities and quality I might have purchased more than one New Guild from them by now but unfortunately the ones I have played have not Matched up in my opinion in tone or quality of what was being produced Previously at Tacoma and New Hartford. Also I feel they are asking quite a bit more money for a lot less guitar than what has been offered in the past from Guild. For instance their "traditional" D40 with a price tag of close to $2500 is basically the same construction as the D40 Standard from New Hartford which was being sold new for considerably less and can currently be found on the used market in NOS condition for between $800-$1000. I also feel the New Hartford D40 Standard was put together with much higher quality by more experienced builders than the guitars from Oxnard are currently being built by. I am still optimistic Oxnard will get things together but it is going to take a lot to convince me to buy a new one from what I have already seen.

    As far as warranty work or work in general on my Guilds I have all of my work done by my Local Luthier who is also a qualified Guild repair center and Dealer. That last time I was in his shop we discussed how Cordoba is requiring that some warranty work repairs be sent to them in Oxnard to do the work and I told him straight up if that was the case with any of my Guilds I would rather bypass the warranty and pay him out of pocket to do the work before I sent any of my Guilds to Oxnard for them to do god knows what to them. At least I know he will do the work right instead of Oxnard worrying about cutting corners to save pennies here and there. If for any reason there is something that needs fixing that he isn't willing to do I will send my Guilds to Dapmdave and Fixit at Jacobs.

    As far as which is a better buy? If I were in the market for a Guild guitar I would look to the used market first as Guilds from Westerly, Tacoma, And New Hartford are all going for reasonably low prices and the quality is there by the hand full.

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  6. #16
    Senior Member davismanLV's Avatar
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    I think they're very fairly priced for American made guitars by an established manufacturer. Granted they've change ownership again. But I think Cordoba is doing their best. And they're doing well. Give them time. Judgment comes at the end (mr. pastor) and that's when all the details are hammered out. If you have one in your hand and you think it's definitely the lesser guitar than the Martin..... then buy the Martin. But if you've not played any of them or don't know how they sound then you can't give us an accurate personal evaluation. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think Guild is doing fine. This has been discussed a million times before. I like many different guitar brands and I'm known to stick up for some of them. So you think Guild should be a cut rate Guitar brand? They can't even produce enough guitars at this point to ship to all the distributors so... I think they're doing just fine. Just my opinion......
    Tom in Vegas

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  7. #17
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Pitt, you weren't around a few years back when, as New Hartford's first production started shipping, Fender announced an explicit philosophy of attempting to re-position the brand as "boutique build quality" at less then boutique pricing.
    The interview I saw with Ren Ferguson was interesting, and he touched on this. He seemed to think it was a matter of the process though. (Of course, I get the idea that Ren is a Process First kind of guy.) He said that the fact that they had a broken system, and (Ex) Ovation employees who refused to change, added to the very expensive land the factory was on -- made for a wholesale cost that was unobtainable.

    I can't imagine that building a factory is California is much better. I'm guessing Nazareth, PA starts out cheaper than Oxnard, CA. The thing is Cordoba is kind of an Everyman's guitar in the classical field. Maybe they are looking at Guild as their High end Boutique brand? Who knows? I can't know what they are planning. Seems to me, though, that if that's what they are after, then really need to bring the Custom Shop back.

    And if they are selling new D40s for $2500, it will surely keep the price of the New Hartford Guilds stable. Like I said, their price structure is good for those of us who want used Guilds. And I count myself among that crowd. I don't think I'd buy a new Guild. Certainly won't when they are twice as expensive and (IMHO) not as good.

    If I were going to buy a new guitar, though, I think I'd look at Martin. I kind of dig the new performance neck. Played one at GC, and it felt really good in my hand. I didn't like the action, but that can be fixed. Also wasn't crazy about the tone -- as compared to my D40C. But tone can be... well... actually... there's nothing you can do about tone. Which is why I put it back on the wall.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davismanLV View Post
    I think they're very fairly priced for American made guitars by an established manufacturer. Granted they've change ownership again. But I think Cordoba is doing their best. And they're doing well. Give them time. Judgment comes at the end (mr. pastor) and that's when all the details are hammered out.
    For men, yes. But for an investment, I think judgement needs to play in much sooner.

    For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost (Luke 14:28)
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  9. #19
    Senior Member davismanLV's Avatar
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    Then buy the Martin. It's so easy......
    Tom in Vegas

    Use the good china. Life itself is the special occasion.

    Guild D65s, 1994
    Guild DV72, 1994
    Taylor GC8, 2011
    Breedlove Oregon Concert Rogue 4/12/2016
    Washburn EA-20 "Festival Series", 1995

  10. #20
    Super Moderator fronobulax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    The interview I saw with Ren Ferguson was interesting, and he touched on this. He seemed to think it was a matter of the process though. (Of course, I get the idea that Ren is a Process First kind of guy.) He said that the fact that they had a broken system, and (Ex) Ovation employees who refused to change, added to the very expensive land the factory was on -- made for a wholesale cost that was unobtainable.
    For the record, that is Ren's opinion. His tenure at Guild was not without conflict and there are other sides to the story. FMIC produced Hamer, Ovation, Fender and Guilds at that plant. There was a factory manager in charge of the factory, but each brand had someone who oversaw the production - how? and often someone else who handled production strategy - how much and of what? So Ren was not "in charge" when it came to every aspect of Guild production. I question the "expensive land" comment although it is generally acknowledged that FMICs creditors had concerns about the financial efficiency of running the plant (which is why it was closed) so maybe an accountant chose a land value to support the closing decision?
    Quote Originally Posted by mgod View Post
    What he said.

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