Modern USA Solid Body Guild Guitars.. the Importance of N. America to the Guild Mojo

adorshki

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I guess i'm at a loss :/
Don't take it wrong, the "politics" thing rears its ugly head from time to time and it's for real, but I was trying to keep the mood light with the hyperbole.
There's no confusion of 'some guitars are made in the US and some made in SEA' I realize it's only the acoustics that are made in the US, but other people might not.
Not sure if you see that there are in fact both MIC AND US-built acoustics carrying the Guild logo under current ownership and it has in fact ruffled some feathers here.
The "Westerly Collection" guitars are the MIC acoustics.
And we've had the same complaint: some people might not understand the difference between a "Westerly Collection" guitar and a "Traditional", let alone the potential for the distinction to become even more blurred by on-line sellers, a problem we've seen already.
 

dava4444

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Don't take it wrong, the "politics" thing rears its ugly head from time to time and it's for real, but I was trying to keep the mood light with the hyperbole.

Not sure if you see that there are in fact both MIC AND US-built acoustics carrying the Guild logo under current ownership and it has in fact ruffled some feathers here.
The "Westerly Collection" guitars are the MIC acoustics.
And we've had the same complaint: some people might not understand the difference between a "Westerly Collection" guitar and a "Traditional", let alone the potential for the distinction to become even more blurred by on-line sellers, a problem we've seen already.

WOW.. I *did not* know that :shocked:
 

dava4444

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@ TX

Firstly thanks for the encouragement man :)

Secondly to yourself and adorshki @ CITES

I *honestly* don't know the difference between Rosewood and Burnished Maple..I'll openly say I'm tonewood agnostic*, but I do have the Burnished Maple on my 2011 Gibson SG Melody Maker 'HotRod Deluxe'* and I can't tell the difference, I didn't know such a thing existed and believed it was just Rosewood and until I found out after a year of owning it.

Some people might have a problem with a non-rosewood board, just saying guys; not me. And as you both know.. there are LOADS of near Rosewood relatives that can be used.. Fender switched to 'Ironwood' aka Pau Ferro, I don't hear a difference. And *maybe* because its more compact it *might* add sustain.. which if that happens is a nice plus.


*I say let scientists work it out. I just wanna know about the sustain. besides how much is a EQ pedal these days? I got one.
*upgraded to something like a SG Special with unique switching hehe.. parallel/series, phase in/out, bass cut. owned since 2014, dual pickups upgraded 2015. switching completed in 2016.
 
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Interesting thread. I'm also in the UK, a 40 year old Welshman. Being a Soundgarden fan I have also admired the S-100 from afar for many years. I have only seen one myself in Kim Thayil's hands at the three Soundgarden gigs I've been to. Never seen one in a store, never tried one. They don't seem to be widely stocked in the UK, I would probably have to travel a long way to find a store with one, so I would have to buy blind on-line. The current lowest price online is £623 ($823). I am severely tempted to buy online, I can always send it back if it's not for me.

I'm agonizing between an S-100 or an SG. An US made SG Special 2017 can be had for almost the same price as an S-100. A Standard much more expensive. To be honest, yes being made in the US does add some kind of mojo, but if it's a good guitar I don't mind that it's Korean or whatever. Reverend guitars are well regarded are made in Korea and cover the same price range, I believe Deusenbergs are too and are far more expensive. Given Gibson are apparently in big financial trouble, how viable long term is production in the US to make affordable instruments? You also read comment's about Gibson's quality control everywhere on the web.

Just some thoughts - while I'm here, can I ask a question - what is soft U the neck profile like on the new S-100, thick or thin? I've seen reviews claiming both!
 

adorshki

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Just some thoughts - while I'm here, can I ask a question - what is soft U the neck profile like on the new S-100, thick or thin? I've seen reviews claiming both!
Welcome aboard Mailman!
No snark intended, but I came to this realization a long time ago:
"Chunky is in the hand of the holder"
How big are your hands?
:friendly_wink:
 

adorshki

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I *honestly* don't know the difference between Rosewood and Burnished Maple..I'll openly say I'm tonewood agnostic*, but I do have the Burnished Maple on my 2011 Gibson SG Melody Maker 'HotRod Deluxe'* and I can't tell the difference, I didn't know such a thing existed and believed it was just Rosewood and until I found out after a year of owning it.
I think the tonewood thing is much more relevant in pure acoustics and next in hollow/semi-hollow electrics.
There's also a school of thought that acoustic players at least, are a highly conservative bunch who want to see the basic traditional construction methods and materials maintained and used.
I guess I'm somewhat in that school myself, primarily because the basic art of guitar construction has been evolving over a couple of hundred years now, and steel arch-top/flattop construction for about a hundred.
Plus I love wood and am prejudiced against synthetics/composites for sound bodies, or even major parts like necks.
I ABHOR Martin's stratabond necks for example.
Some people might have a problem with a non-rosewood board, just saying guys; not me. And as you both know.. there are LOADS of near Rosewood relatives that can be used.. Fender switched to 'Ironwood' aka Pau Ferro, I don't hear a difference. And *maybe* because its more compact it *might* add sustain.. which if that happens is a nice plus.
Yes there are lots of suitable woods and I have heard that proposition that fretboard material can color tone particularly in electrics, and if Pau Ferro actually improves sustain I'm all for it.
But let's call a spade a spade and acknowledge that in most maker's cases for volume production instruments it's all about cost, and cost of materials is one way to lower 'em.
I'd bet Fender is going for the Pau Ferro because it's not CITES listed so it's more easily imported.
That in itself is a form of lower cost.
I also believe there's a lot of misunderstanding about how CITES works and why or even if certain woods like rosewood are actually going to become unobtainable.
Is it going to go up in cost?
Sure, but not because of CITES which will only marginally increase cost due to the need for documentation of sourcing, and screening at ports of entry.
The real reason cost will go up is the same reason it has historically: Supply vs demand.
Demand continues to increase in growth markets like China in particular.
But this also has the effect of stimulating farming of East Indian Rosewood.
OK it may not be "old growth" but there's going to at least be a supply for the forseeable future..
 
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Welcome aboard Mailman!
No snark intended, but I came to this realization a long time ago:
"Chunky is in the hand of the holder"
How big are your hands?
:friendly_wink:

Thanks! On the small side of average? Shortish fingers. I guess the only way to know if its right will be to get my hands on one. I’m used to a Strat neck with a modern C profile.
 

dava4444

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Interesting thread. I'm also in the UK, a 40 year old Welshman. Being a Soundgarden fan I have also admired the S-100 from afar for many years. I have only seen one myself in Kim Thayil's hands at the three Soundgarden gigs I've been to. Never seen one in a store, never tried one. They don't seem to be widely stocked in the UK, I would probably have to travel a long way to find a store with one, so I would have to buy blind on-line. The current lowest price online is £623 ($823). I am severely tempted to buy online, I can always send it back if it's not for me.

I'm agonizing between an S-100 or an SG. An US made SG Special 2017 can be had for almost the same price as an S-100. A Standard much more expensive. To be honest, yes being made in the US does add some kind of mojo, but if it's a good guitar I don't mind that it's Korean or whatever. Reverend guitars are well regarded are made in Korea and cover the same price range, I believe Deusenbergs are too and are far more expensive. Given Gibson are apparently in big financial trouble, how viable long term is production in the US to make affordable instruments? You also read comment's about Gibson's quality control everywhere on the web.

Just some thoughts - while I'm here, can I ask a question - what is soft U the neck profile like on the new S-100, thick or thin? I've seen reviews claiming both!

Welcome!

Alrightbi!*

Erm Mailman .. I don't know your collection already and if you're defo going for 'new' I'm not sure what to recommend. If you were going second hand, your options open up by a dazzling rate.. especially on eBay UK/Gumtree.
I will say though that neck comfort is everything! Buying blind when its *that* kind of cash.. I can't recommend.. I bought a 2015 SG Standard and while it's a great guitar, the precursor of the HP series, the neck width is like a Spanish acoustic.

I am currently looking to swap that SG standard for a 90's SG or 90's S-100..but I shouldn't include the S-100 becuase I don't know what the neck is like :/
I love Gibson 90's SG necks and ..even though I was desperate for cash at the time and there was no other way to pay my bills.. I kinda regret selling it (94 Black SG Special). The neck was SO comfortable!

@adorshki

+1 I agree


*(Wenglish for: nice to meet you)
 
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adorshki

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I am currently looking to swap that SG standard for a 90's SG or 90's S-100..but I shouldn't include the S-100 becuase I don't know what the neck is like :/
You should know that no 2 necks from Westerly-built instruments will be exactly the same because every single one of 'em was given final shaping by hand on belt and spindle sanders.
Although there were templates for initial shaping, it's the final shaping that is the source of all the variation even though they all share nominal specs like nut width.
Even nut widths have been found to vary by fractions, I'm guessing in large part due to the hand-shaping process, although there are certainly plenty of examples of instruments that were obviously built "off-spec" such as a 1-3/4" nut width on a model that was spec'd for 1-11/16", or for electrics more likely a 1-5/8" nut on an instrument spec'd for 1-11/16"
Then, just to keep things interesting, the catalogs weren't always reliable either.
For example the late '97 catalog shows S-100's with 24-3/4" scale and 1-5/8 nut width, but I question that because all the other 24-3/4 electric necks (Starfires, Bluesbirds)) show 1-11/16 nuts for that scale.
Besides, that same spec list shows S-100 with rosewood pickups.
I kid you not.
:glee:
Recently there were a couple of comments about late Westerly ('96-'01) electric necks being "fat" in profile, generally speaking, and Bluesbirds in particular, which as far as I can see from catalog pics used exactly the same necks as the S-100.
 
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adorshki

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HAHAH :glee: crazy!

Ah, I have to correct myself about the "exactly the same neck" remark, as I realized where they join could make a difference due to different heel location.
And while the fretboards and headstocks look the same; it looks like the Bluesbirds had the join at the 16th fret, while the S-100 Polara looks like the join is actually at the 18th fret.
So the heel itself is about 3 full frets farther down the neck.
Who knows if maybe they made 'em skinnier to compensate for the weight of the longer neck, and maybe they really did have a 1-5/8" nut just to give it a little bit different feel?
Hopefully a "real" electric player'll shed some light, or you could even start a post asking for feedback on that specific question.
:friendly_wink:
 
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Welcome!

Alrightbi!*

Erm Mailman .. I don't know your collection already and if you're defo going for 'new' I'm not sure what to recommend. If you were going second hand, your options open up by a dazzling rate.. especially on eBay UK/Gumtree.
I will say though that neck comfort is everything! Buying blind when its *that* kind of cash.. I can't recommend.. I bought a 2015 SG Standard and while it's a great guitar, the precursor of the HP series, the neck width is like a Spanish acoustic.

I am currently looking to swap that SG standard for a 90's SG or 90's S-100..but I shouldn't include the S-100 becuase I don't know what the neck is like :/
I love Gibson 90's SG necks and ..even though I was desperate for cash at the time and there was no other way to pay my bills.. I kinda regret selling it (94 Black SG Special). The neck was SO comfortable!

@adorshki

+1 I agree


*(Wenglish for: nice to meet you)

Diolch Dava! (Proper Welsh for thanks)
My collection consists of one US Standard Strat, bought new last year after a long lay off the guitar. I admit that I don’t have much experience of playing different guitars. I think a Gibson style guitar (be it LP, SG, S-100 or even a Vintage Lemon Drop) would be a good complement to the strat for heavier stuff. I’m a bit apprehensive buying used on-line, and as I live in the far west wilds, normally very far from any seller or shop. I will probably buy new again, in the knowledge that it can be sent back. The modern C neck on the Strat feels is great…………… the thing is that perhaps there is a chance I would like a chunkier neck… I won’t know till I try one. But my shortish fingers lead me to believe that a slimmer neck would be better for me. I certainly don’t like very wide necks. Perhaps I should start a new thread on S-100 reissue necks?
 

dava4444

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Diolch Dava! (Proper Welsh for thanks)
My collection consists of one US Standard Strat, bought new last year after a long lay off the guitar. I admit that I don’t have much experience of playing different guitars. I think a Gibson style guitar (be it LP, SG, S-100 or even a Vintage Lemon Drop) would be a good complement to the strat for heavier stuff. I’m a bit apprehensive buying used on-line, and as I live in the far west wilds, normally very far from any seller or shop. I will probably buy new again, in the knowledge that it can be sent back. The modern C neck on the Strat feels is great…………… the thing is that perhaps there is a chance I would like a chunkier neck… I won’t know till I try one. But my shortish fingers lead me to believe that a slimmer neck would be better for me. I certainly don’t like very wide necks. Perhaps I should start a new thread on S-100 reissue necks?

I would say.. dude get out there and try different necks*. I started with a couple of Encore Strats and a Fujigen Marauder (around 1993 + a few disasters).. the marauder (which I still own :) ) has a small quick neck, it made me realize I love small necks.. then the next year I got my Fender Mex Special Contemp. Strat and something about that neck too, it's larger but because it's rounded (7.5 radius I think) it felt good for lead. I've had a few necks that I just didn't get on with.. I owned for a short time a Epiphone Korina 1958 V re-issue, I also owned a Gibson 1976 all maple Marauder (thinking it would be the same as the Fujigen.. I was SO wrong!).. the neck was HUGE on the Gibson Marauder, like an acoustic. I owned a Epi SG Standard.. and while the neck wasn't as bad as I make myself remember it, it wasn't a 1:1 copy of a Gibson SG Standard, I now think it was mostly that the frets were too large, but idk.. I was just so disappointed I gave it away to a neighbour who was moving away.. for free.

So I pretty much spent 10 years + avoiding fat necks..but y'know what, my favorite neck* right now, is my Squier 1993 Japanese Strat* .. which has a fat neck. After that I started to believe it's 'horses for courses' and nothing is definitive. Once you've lived with a neck for a couple of months you know deep in heart if you will enjoy it or just lie to yourself about it that you like it. Lies are the enemy.. the blockade to comfort nirvana. It's kinda weird.. coz we all have 'off the peg' guitars but guitars have to fit like clothes do, there is no 'one size fits all' and if there were.. I say Fender comes the closest. I rarely pick up a Fender neck that I hate, if ever at all. Gibson imho.. Gibson are a bizarre collection ranging from elegant comfort to counter intuitive.

I collect Alden guitars.. but only the set-neck versions, oh I've had opportunities to buy the bolt-on versions from time to time (on ebay etc) but the necks feel so vastly different to me I just don't have the interest. what I mean is, same manufacturer does not guarantee same neck. and unfortunately I find it takes around 2 months to know 100% if you love a neck or not.. up until then.. (unless you have prior experience, matching necks) you never know. And it's not like you can try a guitar for 2 months and send it back.. as a suggestion, if you have any muso friends, try a swap for a month (or 2) non permanent, their instrument for yours.. I did this with my former jamming partner, his Jap Jag for my (I forget which guitar, but of similar value then little chance of one getting wrecked). What did I find out in that month.. I learned I could live with a fat neck and I loved the tones of the Jag, but I also learned I didn't love *that neck* and att it confirmed that I should shy away from fat necks.

*you said you live far away but man.. for dropping so much cash, might be worth a journey into the city?
*(along with my 2011 SG Melody Makers 90's style neck)
*(bought Dec 2015) so less than 2 years believing this. it really opened my eyes. I bought it so I could retired the 1994 Mex..
which has huge sentimental value to me, as my Gran who has passed away bought it for me. Apart from the radius and general fret feel.. the back necks are very different.
The rest I painstakingly recreated over many months.
 
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