Modern USA Solid Body Guild Guitars.. the Importance of N. America to the Guild Mojo

dava4444

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Hi

I'm Dava, long time distant admirer of Guild Guitars, I'm Scottish 41, playing since 17yo, have a collection of around 40 guitars.. I first really became aware of Guilds (aside from a mention in Ian C Bishops Gibson Guitar book) through watching Kim Thayil with his S-100 Polara. This year I worked out that it was a general misconception I and it seems many others had that his S-100 is is British Racing Green due to a Guild Advert in magazines of the time, the guitar was actually black and it was a stage light hitting it in the picture that made it have a green tinge. Doesn't stop me admiring the guitar as memory though, and I have seen people over on the Guild Facebook page ask for that colour even in the last 2 years, it stuck in people's minds.

The Korean line of Guild guitars at present seem high quality, but at an exorbitant price, I can buy a second hand Gibson or Fender for that kind of money, or even a new Gibson or Fender (USA).. to buy a Newark St. S-100 in the UK is around £740 ($970) last year I bought one of my dream guitars a; 1979 Epiphone (Matsumoku) Scroll SC550 for £325 ($427) I also bought a Gibson SG Standard new from Thomann for £835 ($1099).. Korean guitars get a bad wrap and as long as you use one of the top plants.. you should get quality guitars in return, however.. The second hand market has so many USA/Japanese/Mexican/Canadian of very high quality but less than half what you charge for the Newark St. it becomes easily a no-brainer which to pick. I'm not here to tell you off.. but to suggest a compromise.

Most of why people buy american guitars from other countries believe it or not is .. its glamours to own an instrument from the country that invented solid body guitars.. its 'Mojo'.. sure sure it has be of high quality too or everyone would just start buying from Japan (not the home of the electric guitar..but I think others might agree it's holiday cabin).. Guild for many years was an important component in North American guitar building.. why? because Guild was the one to clean up Gibsons mess when they throw a wobbly and smashed the bottle of milk on the floor.. maybes that's obscure.. when Gibson decided to cut the production cost of SG's (late 60s early 70s with the weird switches) suddenly the S-100 became the obvious choice for a quality guitar.. right now Gibson are losing artist endorsements left and right..most notably for me The Edge of U2 who I always remember as an Explorer guy.. is now with Fender touting Strats.. James Hetfield too went to ESP. Then there's the PRS copy.. erm thats nuts! it's also oogly. I'm hearing more and more Gibson are disenfranchised with guitar design, building and artist after-care.

How could Guild make a North American guitar and compete with SEA prices? well I can go you one better.. what about a plant in Puerto Rico? the average yearly salary is around $20,000, you get to stamp 'Made in the USA' on the back of the headstock, which I would also add 'Made in the USA - Puerto Rico'. They are US citizens so you are putting jobs in the hands of needy Americans. and you could produce these guitars for LESS than what you have been charging coming from Korea and so increase the their popularity. Quality? welp.. yes at first while you train the staff that would be an issue until the staff had a couple of years under their belt and knew how high a standard was expected of their work, however in the interim the PR guitars could be shipped to Corona to be checked and setup, and this could be a regular thing making Corona a distribution hub even after the interim period.

Pricing?

I spoke at the start about the competition of Guild and Gibson, I feel this should continue and be reflected in the pricing.


A Gibson SG Standard can be bought new for around $1100.
A Guild S-100; I would suggest a Target Price of around $1000
A Gibson SG Special can be bought new for around $900
A Guild S-90; I would suggest a Target Price of around $800

I would pit the Bluesbird vs the LP and The Explorer vs the S-200 T-Bird each on guilds side $100 less.
I would pit the S-70 (HB in Bridge and SCHB in neck, pickups/3 way switch being of asian origin, pots caps = USA) vs any budget option Melody Maker Gibson had, I wouldn't lower the price though but instead offer gloss finishes at no extra charge.

Hey Dava! your selling our babies awfully cheap! really .. I'm not, and what more important is to get Guilds in the hands of players and collectors, because one they own one and are happy they start to talk about it more and more.. you could say you get this with the Korean versions and that would be true to some extent, but Korean guitars have a bit of a stigma attached to them due to the early Korean Squiers and just how bad they were compared to their Japanese counterparts. That sticks in people's mind.. and while many have done much, yourselves included to lift this stigma.. I just can't justify paying US prices for a guitar made in Korea. I am also paying for Mojo which Korea just doesn't have that. And when I talk about quality Korean guitars.. I own one, I own a Fender Showmaster (badly misnomered) It's basically a Fender Korean Custom Shop Strat, I also own many Aldens which I collect which were made in Korea and China (same factory as the Eastwood Guitars). I paid £300 ($395) for the Fender and around £100 to £200 for each Alden (too many to list). You see where I'm coming from right?.. I'm not down on Koreans getting a fair shake, but I can't justify the price without the missing Mojo.

OK.. been writing this for two hours, I have a viral bronchitis + flu, oh man my head hurts. I just hope someone finds my opinions of value and hope anyone who read this enjoyed hearing said opinions.

kind regards

Dava
 
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fronobulax

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Welcome. That is a long first post and I am pondering it now. I will say it is one of the few posts I have seen from someone who is not in the USA who nevertheless advocates "Made In The USA" and can articulate why. Perhaps I will have more to contribute later in the discussion.
 

JohnW63

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I think I would have to check the prices you mentioned, because to my inexperienced eyes, they sound pretty low.

GC ...Gibson SG 2018 model is selling for $1400
GC....Gibson SG Special 2018 model is selling for $1099

So, yep, you can get a USA made SG for not much over $1000.

The problem with comparing the LP is WHICH LP do you look at ? The "Studio" version is gong for about $1100, but the more upscale version goes for close to $2400
The Explorer is around $1500

On the Guild side, the Polara is selling for $799 so that's about 400 bucks less than the low end Gibson SG
For the Bluesbird, the price is $1000 with a carved top and nice flame top. This looks a lot nicer than the studio version of the Gibson which looks like made out of a hunk o wood. It says carved top, so I have to believe them. I think the Les Paul Traditional is a closer match. It's like $2300.

So, COULD Guild compete, price wise with the US made Gibsons ? I think they could, but....people STILL think Gibson electric guitars, when they think they want to rock and are willing to buy them no matter how clunky they sometimes hit the shelves. Few rock players are going to stop staring at their dream Gibson, to look at a Guild, because they have no clue what they are about. Gibson can sell their stuff cheaper and make money because of the volume of guitars that move off the shelves. Guild would not have the luxury. So, they might have to sell them for more, which hurts sales. Who would spend MORE than a Gibson, to have some " Gibson copy " in a lot of people's minds ? How lost cost can Heritage sell their guitars and they have a LOT closer tie to the Gibson legacy ? They are not cheap, and few people know about them, at least in the big retail market. To sell, Guild would have to really out do Gibson on all fronts, and get some stellar reviews AND not be too far off the same price and know they will sell a lot less. A tough thing to do.
 

GAD

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Calling the NS Bluesbird a "carved" top does not make it just like a Les Paul. That's probably a veneer on the NS Bluesbird, not a huge piece of maple like it is on a Les Paul (assuming not a studio).

Also, there's about 40 levels of Les Paul with a HUGE range in price. I'm sorry to say that if what you want is a Les Paul then a NS Bluesbird will not satisfy that itch. As someone who's owned a few Les Pauls including some killer Historics, my '97 Bluesbird might compare, but my NS Bluesbird absolutely does not. My Nightbirds crush them all, though. :)
 

dava4444

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Thanks for your replies guys :)

Hi John.. the prices stated were prices paid not rrp.. which to many is a bit of a myth, rrp if you get no discount which all the major retailers do. Phil McKnight spoke about this in one of his videos, says as a small retailer he made around $150 for selling a Gibson, unless it was a custom shop sale. I agree, its a tough thing to do, however Guild has done it before, I would say 'bloating' of guitar models is the cause for the collapse of many companies, if Guild made ONLY those 5 models on a regular basis, then there is less chance of losing money and more chance of becoming re-established as a n.american solid body guitar company. sure sure.. drop one model for 6 months/a year and switch it out for a Guild Limited Run for the Skyhawk/Skylark or whatever is voted most popular on these forums. Also colours are a way a company hemorrhages money, so I suggest for the S-100 (possibly other models) that 3 regular colours are selected with a fourth colour being made and available for Christmas month only. I suggest Black, Cherry and BR Green or White being the 'Christmas Colour'.This would save Guild money, as people are fussy about the colour of their guitars.
Hi Default.. I was working really hard on the OP and may have missed a detail..but that's what was on the Guild website. I knew Fender had sold Guild a few years ago yes.
Hi GAD.. The Bluesbird afaik is famous for its sparkle tops and not flamed, I was thinking as writing, it would be pitted against the LP Standard, I would also like to see the T-Bird inlay on the Bluesbird headstock.. wait I just checked that finish out.. wow, only one sparkle finish? I must be confusing it with the Dearmond Bluesbird, which is no bad thing as flame tops are too expensive, like above we want to avoid bloating and money loss, flame tops, I feel would sink too much cash into that model and be taking a risk. An option for 'mash figuring' might be more viable and much much cheaper (mash figuring is a term I use to describe a heavy figured but very un-uniformed flame/quilt/mix). and hehe.. glad you are enjoying your Nightbirds man :) I've never really been a LP style guy, SG's and Strats mostly for me my fav SG right now is my Hotroded Gibson SG 2011 Melody Maker, love that guitar, its got some weird tone switching (done by req. by a friend) and a jaguar plate, dream to play. I am currently fixing a chip on the 2015 SG Standard with the hope of trading it on.. its a GREAT guitar, really, but I *just* can't get used to the extra wide neck.


oh I am so knackered! my brain is like mush.. thank you Google for chrome spellcheck!! :)
 
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GAD

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Bluesbird is famous for its sparkle tops? Do you mean Holoflake like this? If so I think only 30 were made.

guildbluesbirds3a_zps7gk1afwa.jpg



Most all of the Westerly Guild Bluesbirds I've seen were flamed.

The 1970s Bluesbirds had plaintops and were very different guitars.

Really, I think "Bluesbird" is probably to vague as there are so many variations. To me, the only one that really compares to a Les Paul is the late-90s/early-00s Bluesbirds:

5D3_6768_1600.jpg
 

adorshki

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Hi Default.. I was working really hard on the OP and may have missed a detail..but that's what was on the Guild website. I knew Fender had sold Guild a few years ago yes.

Dava I suspect from your slang you're a UK citizen and I think this may be coloring your perception of manufacturing costs and methods.
(To be fair by the way, I suspected maybe you got "Cordoba" confused with "Corona" although the manufacturing plant is in Oxnard, so I just let that one by. Also I seem to recall that some of Cordoba's job listings a couple of years back were coincidentally in Corona, and websites are notorious for not being regularly updated, besides. )
In any case a small mistake about the location of the domestic "Final QC" you propose doesn't negate your premise.
What I think is truly relevant is the extremely weak infrastructure of Puerto Rico as demonstrated by the aftermath of the recent hurricane:
http://www.npr.org/2017/10/10/55683...a-puerto-rico-struggles-to-turn-on-the-lights
I don't think any manufacturer would even consider building or re-furbishing an existing plant there until the power grid is reliable and durable, at the very least.
Regarding the skills of the labor force and having instruments vetted in Oxnard before shipping, well that kind of negates the cost savings right off the top, I think.
And history seems to show that it takes a minimum of 2 years for a brand new production line to hit decent operating efficiency and acceptable QC.
So I suspect it jut doesn't make economic sense or it would be being done already.
Admittedly I'm a pessimist about this kind of stuff and look for the hurdles in any project before just jumping right in, but those're the primary factors I see working against your idea.
Also, absent some figures for comparison, I'm not convinced that the labor cost of production really would be lower in Puerto Rico.
Otherwise, nice provocative first post!
 
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dava4444

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Thinking about the money a little more..

The average Korean worker makes around $22000 a year. then the guitars need to be shipped from Asia across the Pacific to the USA.. I have no idea who much this costs, but by logic the shorter distance should be cheaper and more environment friendly.
I am also unsure if Guild has to pay tax and import tax from Korea.. coming from the US, these charges would be I imagine reduced in cost to zero. it would be the same tax percent per guitar that you already pay but with lower wages cost.

There would be the initial setup of the factory cost, but since the work there is cheaper than the rest of the US it should be viable, the reduction of extra taxation might even pay for the plant itself.

GAD.. yeah man.. i kinda retracted the finish thing, but then added it would be cool and reduce costs. for flame.. like I said a mashed flame option could be done. uniform flame costs a fortune AA,AAA,AAAA etc.. it's just too risky a cost imho. but a mashed flame/quilt/mix .. just anything highly figured then made into a solid top might be a viable option. think of mashed figuring like carpet off-cuts and end of roll sales.. its not the expensive uniformity but a plentiful effect of *something* decorative.. I have a mashed flame necked strat.. it instantly dazzles the eye. had it not been mashed, it would have been a quilt but it did not line up enough for the builder to save it for a top.

Thinking also of cost cutting methods for the S-70 and S-90.. why to do we need both fret markers AND side markers? would it be better to cut a square chunk out of the upper bout of the fret board and glue in an abalone rectangle? it would show on the front and upper side.. we could make it longer at the 12th for a guide.. this would save a fortune in labour. The routing could even be done during the fretboard making process further saving on labour costs. measure twice cut once ;) a slightly lower abalone profile to compensate for the extra glue, slightly rounded to match the radius and voila!

The most costly part of creating a guitar might be the finish.. for the sheer man-hours took, BUT there are newer compounds that cure faster than tradition methods.. superglue for example, putting to costs of spray paint then once dry (2 or 3 days) using a superglue solution to spray the guitar, most cure very very quickly, it is a harder material to work with, but most everything can be fixed with sandpaper. once cured sandpaper and hand power tool polish. it'll be ROCK hard and shiny. I estimate you could finish a guitar within a week and have it out the door ready to be sold.. this is very different than most guitar makers who take upto a month to cure and finish a guitar. (I'm thinking of Gibson)

I'm tonewood agnostic.. which means I don't know or care if wood gives tone to a guitar, I believe give the problem to impartial scientists for 50 years and let them work it out.. what I care about is sustain. Finding the correct materials to give jaw dropping sustain is important to me.. I DO believe maple can do this, my Alden Bluesline Custom Plus is probably my longest sustaining guitar, that and my '76 Fujigen Marauder, cutting cost on materials means you end up with a crappy product. But also I don't believe in wasting money on tradition unless you get your return. Maple caps add sustain.. flame veneers on maple caps do nothing imho but suggest the guitar is a phoney.. so I mention again about a mashed maple top. Having USA pickups and pots and switches etc is essential to the mojo of any standard or custom guitar.. for the budget option people are willing to take the hit of asian pickups (I would suggest any HB had adjustable pole pieces) and 3 way switch.. as these are proven components, designed to work adequately.. most people replace the pots and caps in such guitars and so it is logical to save them the hassle to do it in the factory. Things not to skimp on.. fretwire should be steel to add durability and sustain. A wrap around tailpiece correctly done on the S-70 (rem Gibsons mess up with the FB Zero and M2?) will add sustain, reduce working cost and costs for the tune-o-matic.

might come back to this with more ideas.. im still pretty sick :/
 

dava4444

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Dava I suspect from your slang you're a UK citizen and I think this may be coloring your perception of manufacturing costs and methods.
(To be fair by the way, I suspected maybe you got "Cordoba" confused with "Corona" although the manufacturing plant is in Oxnard, so I just let that one by. Also I seem to recall that some of Cordoba's job listings a couple of years back were coincidentally in Corona, and websites are notorious for not being regularly updated, besides. )
In any case a small mistake about the location of the domestic "Final QC" you propose doesn't negate your premise.
What I think is truly relevant is the extremely weak infrastructure of Puerto Rico as demonstrated by the aftermath of the recent hurricane:
http://www.npr.org/2017/10/10/55683...a-puerto-rico-struggles-to-turn-on-the-lights
I don't think any manufacturer would even consider building or re-furbishing an existing plant there until the power grid is reliable and durable, at the very least.
Regarding the skills of the labor force and having instruments vetted in Oxnard before shipping, well that kind of negates the cost savings right off the top, I think.
And history seems to show that it takes a minimum of 2 years for a brand new production line to hit decent operating efficiency and acceptable QC.
So I suspect it jut doesn't make economic sense or it would be being done already.
Admittedly I'm a pessimist about this kind of stuff and look for the hurdles in any project before just jumping right in, but those're the primary factors I see working against your idea.
Also, absent some figures for comparison, I'm not convinced that the labor cost of production really would be lower in Puerto Rico.
Otherwise, nice provocative first post!


Hi :)

I'm Scottish and live 20 miles outside of Glasgow.. I see an opportunity here..

If the plant was sunk into the ground in concrete it could double as a kind of 'storm shelter' for the workers, their families and some approved locals. sure sure .. there would need to be an access bay for the loading of guitars to trucks, but it needn't be exposed and a smaller side access bay and some forklift trucks could do the job just as well. Having petrol generators as backups while the storm is happening is VERY easy for a company, but very hard for average people.
OK.. NOT CORONA :)) .. California right? then plz switch that in your minds for California :) .. other companies already do the 'setup in usa' method and they seem happy to do so. Godin (Canada with USA assembly) is one, Fender is another (Mexican with USA setup).. if you look at the price of Mex Strats it can't cost *that* much.

nothing is ever done already unless its being done ;) .. there is a first time for everything! in the post before ninja'd I mentioned how Guild would save on shipping, tax and import tax. Local average wages are actually lower than Korea.. Korea being $22000 a year and Puerto Rico being $20000.
 

adorshki

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Hi :)

I'm Scottish and live 20 miles outside of Glasgow.. I see an opportunity here..

If the plant was sunk into the ground in concrete it could double as a kind of 'storm shelter' for the workers, their families and some approved locals. sure sure .. there would need to be an access bay for the loading of guitars to trucks, but it needn't be exposed and a smaller side access bay and some forklift trucks could do the job just as well. Having petrol generators as backups while the storm is happening is VERY easy for a company, but very hard for average people.
OK.. NOT CORONA :)) .. California right? then plz switch that in your minds for California :) .. other companies already do the 'setup in usa' method and they seem happy to do so. Godin (Canada with USA assembly) is one, Fender is another (Mexican with USA setup).. if you look at the price of Mex Strats it can't cost *that* much.
OK; s-o-o... good point about generator.
Then realized "average wage" is probably the least of the cost issues and that if the factory enables the Korean worker to be more efficient (measured as unit production per hour on a very large scale due to building guitars for many different brands), then Korean labor will probably still be cheaper per unit.
Then I got to thinking about shipping cost.
Being in an industry that imports a lot of bulky material from Asia (paper), I'm a little conversant with some of the issues such as contracted volume discounts given by shippers and the first break in economy of scale being a full container load.
Thought about shipping from Puerto Rico to Texas requiring further freight by rail cost to get to Oxnard, and that Oxnard is already (along with Los Angeles) a significant port-of-entry to the US and why it makes economic sense for guitar makers to get their imports delivered to California ports because they're major transportation hubs to the rest of the country as well.
Then realized Puerto Rican goods could just as easily go through the Panama Canal, but don't know if that would actually be cheaper than using rail inside the US.
So then I wondered if there were tariffs or other restrictions on Puerto Rican shipping, et voila!
A Google search reveals that in fact a US trade rule may be the real hurdle, forcing significantly higher shipping costs than can be obtained from Asian sources, as explained here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us...n-battle-over-puerto-rico-import-costs-2015-7
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/jones-act-holding-puerto-rico-back-debt-crisis
The way I read that second article, they can't even get their raw materials without paying the freight to get 'em to the island, first, via US shipping companies with "negative" price advantage.
I now suspect that's where the real cost of production gets driven up, making the "build in Puerto Rico" model unviable.
I applaud the effort of trying to come up with the idea, though!
And not to say that there aren't other factors yet to be examined.
 

JohnW63

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I certainly WISH there was a way to make these guitar less costly AND still great guitars that would make even Gibson players take a second look, but I don't know if there is a way. If so, any of the companies that have slid under the water, in recent years, would have taken that magical route.
 

dava4444

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thanks for your replys guys and adorshki's research skills..

I amn't from the US so I don't know why the states would put a tax (almost 'tax embargo') on its own soil. But it seems daft to me.. I mean for years the UK used Hong Kong which is also an island for both a trading port and place of manufacture, seems Puerto Rico would benefit immensely through job creation if the US did the same.. and really, you get paid twice instead of paid once, because you get the workers taxes again. But instead.. you have the Jones Act, which in practise however noble the initial intentions were, seems to me, to create a stranglehold on both Puerto Rican jobs and economy, vastly increasing PR's debt and no way of them to control it. its nuts!

what a shame!

OKAY.. I feel really bad for the Puerto Ricans but let's retcon this thread a little. Why is Mexico, Canada, Belize, Honduras (the home of honduran mahogany) not a viable option? especially Mexico.. which Fender has been doing successfully for decades.
 

adorshki

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Why is Mexico, Canada, Belize, Honduras (the home of honduran mahogany) not a viable option? especially Mexico.. which Fender has been doing successfully for decades.
Well to be fair the original idea was to come up with an economical "Made in USA" alternative, right?
Why has Mexico been such a viable source?
NAFTA.
I'm going to stop there because I'm pretty sure any further discussion will unavoidably drift into political debate, which is frowned upon by our kind host and forum founder Don.
I've tried to engage in economic discussions without involving politics in the past, and I refuse to even try any more.
It's less fun than herding cats.
Don't take it personally, it's simply been a point of huge contention in the past.
Too often well-intentioned comments are misinterpreted and become the seeds of hot debate.
SWEATY hot debate in back rooms where favors are traded without regard for the human cost of corruption....see what I mean?
I can barely hold myself back...
:glee:
 

dava4444

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I guess i'm at a loss :/

In the OP I mentioned 'North American' guitar building.. the ideal 'mojo' is ofc the US.. but Mexico and Canada are also included in this.. why? The early Fenders (50's/60's) were made by everyday Mexican and US staff, and Fender carry on that tradition today with their Mexican Ensenada plant.

Canada.. well that's a personal soft spot for me being Scottish. I will note that Godin make fine guitars and are often overlooked.. this year I had the good fortune to buy a used SD (LP meets Tele style) in honey blonde, I was impressed with the build quality and the price (all in cost me around £200/$250). I can't think of any 'mojo' to speak of connected with Canada.. just the quality of the instrument is similar to the US but at a much lower price.

On the other side and I don't want to be mean hearted but.. Korea; not known for its Rock heroes except 'Korean Elvis', that's it. the rest is synth pop. Also you're right next to China.. where both wonderful and awful stuff comes from. I think using S.E.A. is a bad idea for US based companies.. I always thought there was something sinister about advertising your based in the US and then selling SEA guitars built in an overseas factory. It's not exactly honest is it? I imagine.. many people do not speak or read English well; then because they see 'USA' associated with a brand, they think it comes from the US.

Fender doing it with Squier is fine.. everyone is well versed on what we are getting, the indo Cort stuff is surprisingly high quality at low prices. If Guild make DeArmond guitars again, replacing the 'Guild'* name Newark St. with 'DeArmond' much reduced price tag, possibly moving the to the indonesian Cort factory and they are better quality than the old ones* then people know what they are getting. There's no confusion of 'some guitars are made in the US and some made in SEA' I realize it's only the acoustics that are made in the US, but other people might not. Oh! idk. flip!.. launching DeArmond is making a problem to fix a problem.. all it is; is bloating.

Long story short.. I can't justify the non-Korean price tag for a Korean guitar.

*(reserving the Guild name for US only guitars to clear any confusion)
*(the neck profile was crazy, with high action, things falling off.. i tried one back in the day, man! not worth buying)
 
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txbumper57

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It seems to me that all this energy spent trying to relocate Guild so you could have better prices in the U.K. could be better spent trying to get legislation in your own country (and others) to remove the 20% VAT tax on guitars. This would lower the price of what you pay for a Korean or American made Guild in the U.K. to match what they go for in the USA. Just an idea of course.

TX
 

dava4444

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It seems to me that all this energy spent trying to relocate Guild so you could have better prices in the U.K.

Not really what I'm trying to do.. I just didn't want SEA Guild at USA Guild prices.

could be better spent trying to get legislation in your own country (and others) to remove the 20% VAT tax on guitars. This would lower the price of what you pay for a Korean or American made Guild in the U.K. to match what they go for in the USA. Just an idea of course.

TX

Erm.. okay you have a point about the over taxation of the English Conservative Government .. But I'm Scottish and there's nothing I can do to change that. I already voted for independence and will vote for it again, should the question arise.
IF you read my OP again, you will see how well structured the second hand market is here, I don't see a reason for Korean made Guilds to make an impact but do see a reason a N.American built Guild solid body would.. but maybe that's just a dream I should give up on, because it is so easy for companies to build in SEA and harder elsewhere as adorshki demonstrated to us.
 

txbumper57

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I hear where you are coming from. Even without the 20% VAT tax on New Guilds, Used Guilds have always pulled a premium price in The UK and Europe when compared to the American market. I imagine it is due to the scarcity of readily available models and the unwillingness of current owners to sell their Guilds. The only reason I mentioned the 20% VAT Tax was I have looked at a few limited edition American made models that dealers in the UK have stocked in the past and even though being outside the UK I am not required to pay the VAT tax I didn't want to go through the paperwork needed to purchase the instrument. I can only imagine things will get even more restrictive with the new CITES regulations imposed at the beginning of 2017 on all rosewood species and the required documentation needed for crossing international borders for purpose of commercial sale.

Don't give up on the dream of an American Made Guild solid body as there have been a few whispers that Cordoba may build some American Made Guild Electrics in the future. Only thing is you know they are going to be asking an Arm and a Leg even here in the States.

Like I said earlier it was just an idea. Carry On my friend!

TX
 
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adorshki

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I can only imagine things will get even more restrictive with the new CITES regulations imposed at the beginning of 2017 on all rosewood species and the required documentation needed for crossing international borders for purpose of commercial sale.

Actually there has been no change in the "regs" themselves, the only real change is that any rosewood species that were previously unlisted are now listed and thus subject to the controls:
Source documentation and proof of export approval from the source country are now required.
This was in anticipation of their becoming more widely used as the traditionally used varieties became less available/more expensive.
For guitars I suspect there will be very little impact on rosewood since the most popular East Indian variety has been farmed for years anyway and farmed sources are considered to be CITES compliant by definition.
Documentation of that source is still required of course.
 
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