Gibson Dumping Guitars?

Opsimath

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Frono, you've brought up something I've been pondering for a while. How can mass production continue the way it does? Is there that much demand for new and better? And what about old and reliable? My preference is actually old and reliable. I would rather buy a large appliance knowing I'm going to get 20 or 30 (maybe more) years from it than a high priced item that will breathe its last breath in just under 8 years leaving its owner to unexpectedly deal with 20-something cubic feet of food that is rapidly thawing out. (Ask me how I know that one.) Large appliances now come with a one year warranty. ONE! Not acceptable. If they can't warranty it any longer than that, then they darn sure need to reduce the price! (Sorry, incited to personal riot for a moment.)

But back to the subject, can manufacturers, regardless of what they make, keep manufacturing at the rate they do and still expect to find people to purchase everything they're cranking out? Well, except maybe for chocolate. I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a chocolate surplus left over from any year. If there is, please call me. I will be happy to dispose of it free of charge.
 

bluesypicky

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I think the root cause of Gibson's decline is the poor design of their vibrators.
I got that from a few Craigslist ads, and I think it's credible enough for me to share with you.
You're welcome.
 

dreadnut

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Old and reliable - that sounds like me! LOL

Cynthia, I used to work for a company that built many of the circuit boards for Whirlpool, Maytag, etc. and their dismal field failure rate is no big surprise to me. It's sad, but on the higher ticket items I usually buy the "deluxe" warranty, and often it has paid off.

Don't get me started on manufacturing quality...

By the way, I have seen none of these defects on Martins, Taylors, Collings, Huss & Dalton, Froggy Bottom, Breedlove...where does Gibson get off charging $$$ for guitars with an unfinished soundhole, or glue oozing out from under the bridge, sloppy neck joints, uneven inlay work, and other manufacturing defects that I've seen on new Gibson acoustics hanging in music stores? The scarier part is that they made it to the sales rack...certainly someone had to look at these guitars before hanging them out on the sales floor??
 

Quantum Strummer

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Gotta admit I’ve never understood “brand loyalty.” Even with Guild it comes down to individual products rather than any allegiance to a name or label. It happens that a high percentage of the Guilds I’ve had in my hands have been excellent guitars, so I take extra notice whenever I come upon another one. But that’s the extent of it.

In the past year I’ve become a huge fan of certain Ibanez guitar models made from ~1975–83. Does this translate into any interest at all in what Ibanez is currently up to? Nope. :) Same kinda deal with Gibson: I discovered via playing various models that the Norlin Dark Ages weren’t quite as dark as common lore claims they were. So I snagged a handful of great instruments at very reasonable prices. But for all I care Gibson could’ve gone out of business 40 years ago.

Particular guitars, not brands or even models, are what matter to me. YMMV, of course.

-Dave-
 
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Brad Little

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....Particular guitars, not brands or even models, are what matter to me. YMMV, of course.

-Dave-
Plus one on that. To get back to Gibson, last time I was in a GC (a few years ago), I tried a number of the guitars in their high end room, including a Martin Eric Clapton 000-28 and high price Taylors. The only guitars that made me think twice about purchasing them were Gibson J-45s. I'm not sure if they were standards or some sort of limited model, but they played and sounded better (to my ears) than any of the others in the room.
Brad
 

adorshki

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I think the root cause of Gibson's decline is the poor design of their vibrators.
I got that from a few Craigslist ads, and I think it's credible enough for me to share with you.
You're welcome.

Then why is the Gibson Girl smiling?

poster-ein-gibson-maedchen-1476817.jpg
 

twocorgis

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Sandy, you aren't playing entry level Martins or Taylors. Neither am l.

We're spoiled lil brats!

Well, my 000-17SM is one of Martin's lesser priced line (still above the entry level ones though), and it's a wonderful guitar too.
 

Default

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Well, my 000-17SM is one of Martin's lesser priced line (still above the entry level ones though), and it's a wonderful guitar too.
Like you said, not entry, and that's the majority of guitars sold. Reputation starts there. Everytime l hear about someone going through half a dozen LPs to find the one that isn't a dog, is gobsmacking to me.
 

walrus

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BTW, lest we forget, we are not in an era of "guitar playing" or even "musical instrument playing" as in the past.

Not when I can use an app, or play a video game, or watch any movie I want on my computer or phone. Not too many "garage bands" any more. Every event I go to is a "DJ", not too many "wedding bands", etc. Live music at a club? It's there, but not like it used to be.

My point is that the overall market has dwindled, and as Opsimath said, they keep churning out more guitars for less potential buyers.
Not a great business model.

walrus
 

mavuser

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Gibson is always "dumping guitars," that's the only time i've ever bought one. and I own several, since around 2001.

i like the jrs and melody makers from the USA shop. the custom shop stuff is too overpriced (but the VOS LP Jr is real nice!).

I had one I wasn't in love with. served me well for about 5 years, then seemingly had some major neck issues, and I traded it. I still wouldnt call it a dog, but something about it wasnt perfect. just needed some love I guess. the rest have all been gold.
 

GAD

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BTW, lest we forget, we are not in an era of "guitar playing" or even "musical instrument playing" as in the past.

Not when I can use an app, or play a video game, or watch any movie I want on my computer or phone. Not too many "garage bands" any more. Every event I go to is a "DJ", not too many "wedding bands", etc. Live music at a club? It's there, but not like it used to be.

My point is that the overall market has dwindled, and as Opsimath said, they keep churning out more guitars for less potential buyers.
Not a great business model.

walrus

It's certainly not like it was when I was a teen in the '70s/80s, but with two teen girls I see that there are still garage bands out there and the great players still attract the girls. I also see a fair number of teens still listening to music from the 60's on up to current because good music is good music. My daughter's first boyfriend pulled up one day with Pink Floyd Animals blaring out the windows. I liked that kid...
 

Rayk

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Here's one of the story I read , https://1065.iheart.com/content/2017-10-16-why-so-many-guitarist-are-turning-away-from-gibson/
I haven't looked over their electrics in some time now but I have checked their acoustics Played a Dove that was awesome played a few other High end models one was a humming bird and that was not so good finger board was a mess fit and finish was rough . I think when theres high production things just by under the radar so thats not a turn off . I think a new CEO for Gib is long over due but I don't have enough facts . the article above suggests that the CEO is more interested in a electronic business the a musical instrument one but again I digress .


I would have bought a Gib if I could have justified the cost but for me I couldn't so here's my New Gib .... Errr Epiphone ! I'm a sucker for acoustics and this poor boy can't have both ! LOL
I asked that I get the best of the best ( matched top and back woods ) when I ordered this guitar and Sweetwater came through , big kudos to those folks ! they sent me pictures first to make sure i was satisfied . The guitar is flawless , Wait ! Tx ain't around is he ? LOL hugs buddy :)
She rocks to ! its replacing my Ibanez rocker . :)

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Just_Guild

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Two things - first, I think there are LTGer's buying new Guilds, but perhaps not in the numbers Guild would like. But I think frono's second point is correct - if someone sees a Guild being played, it may translate into a sale - although again not as much as Guild would like.

My answer to the second question is "PRS". I am on their forum as well, there are lots of people buying multiple PRS guitars. They have numerous "price points", a wide variety of woods and finishes, continually offer newly designed models, and IMHO, have very high quality.

How many "versions" of the same Les Paul are there? My apologies, but even Guild is "re-issuing" the same models they had before. If you want to attract new customers, you need to offer different and new models - as frono said "loyalty" only goes so far - you also need brand new customers.

walrus

Well, I guess I'm guilty as charged as I know have six Godin guitars, a brand that is offering quality and diversity at an attractive price point. All bought new, but I also can work deals. Then again, my Starfire IV dates to 1971 and still going strong! Lol.
 

Just_Guild

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Frono, you've brought up something I've been pondering for a while. How can mass production continue the way it does? Is there that much demand for new and better? And what about old and reliable? My preference is actually old and reliable. I would rather buy a large appliance knowing I'm going to get 20 or 30 (maybe more) years from it than a high priced item that will breathe its last breath in just under 8 years leaving its owner to unexpectedly deal with 20-something cubic feet of food that is rapidly thawing out. (Ask me how I know that one.) Large appliances now come with a one year warranty. ONE! Not acceptable. If they can't warranty it any longer than that, then they darn sure need to reduce the price! (Sorry, incited to personal riot for a moment.)

But back to the subject, can manufacturers, regardless of what they make, keep manufacturing at the rate they do and still expect to find people to purchase everything they're cranking out? Well, except maybe for chocolate. I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a chocolate surplus left over from any year. If there is, please call me. I will be happy to dispose of it free of charge.

Bery good points. I ask the same question as our economy has morphed from demand driven production, to production driven production. Not just for guitars, but for cars, bicycles, furniture, and more. For example, my buddy who deals in Godin guitars will often list some Strats for sale? Why? His local music store, to get the Fender guitars he wants, has to take a certain number of other models that he has a hard time moving, if at all. Gary will take them off his hands for cash, then sell through his online store.

so I know Sandy really likes his Martins, and deservingly so. My comment was based more on their high production, and high prices too, and the mystique they sell. And the comments of someone who runs their shop. Trust me, there is no mystique on that factory floor, and a lot of automation.
 

JohnW63

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you need to offer different and new models

And there IS a big problem. As a general rule, guitar buyers DON'T like new and different ! Guitars should look only a few different ways. There are only three real electric guitar shapes. The Les Paul shape ( Figure 8 with a cut out on the bottom. ) , The Fender Strat/Tele, and something like a Gibson ES or SG ( Figure 8 with both cut outs around the neck ) There are less acoustic guitar shapes. A sort of square box, dreadnaught, and a curvy figure 8 thing, like an OM. Change the size up and down for Jumbo or 00 or what ever. They should all sound a lot like they grew up hearing them sound. Sure, they may buy a non Martin, but it better sound a lot LIKE a Martin, just better. The humbucker wearing electric better sound like a killer Les Paul.

Find a successful guitar maker the really tried to veer. Ovations are OM shaped, but have , GASP!, a round back. At the end of their near death, they even had a pre-amp in the guitar that allowed you to record what you where playing and then play it back and jam with yourself. THAT was going out there. It flopped. They aren't doing too well, much to my chagrin. I think they got more fans building Guilds than building round backs, in the last 10 years. Some of the wilder, high end, small builders messed around with sound hole placement too, but you won't see that selling at a GC or Sam Ash.
 

bobouz

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Have enjoyed Gibsons since the '70s. Many have come and gone over the years (as with other brands).

In honor of this thread, thought I'd update my signature to list the current group!
 

jwsamuel

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Been through the Factory many times, really nothing particularly special about their guitars.

The Martin factory is just for show. The real guitars are made by elves in the woods of Nazareth. I heard that on another guitar forum.

Jim
 

walrus

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And there IS a big problem. As a general rule, guitar buyers DON'T like new and different ! Guitars should look only a few different ways. There are only three real electric guitar shapes. The Les Paul shape ( Figure 8 with a cut out on the bottom. ) , The Fender Strat/Tele, and something like a Gibson ES or SG ( Figure 8 with both cut outs around the neck ) There are less acoustic guitar shapes. A sort of square box, dreadnaught, and a curvy figure 8 thing, like an OM. Change the size up and down for Jumbo or 00 or what ever. They should all sound a lot like they grew up hearing them sound. Sure, they may buy a non Martin, but it better sound a lot LIKE a Martin, just better. The humbucker wearing electric better sound like a killer Les Paul.

I don't necessarily disagree with the "shapes" argument (although I love the '80's Hair Band Guilds!). That argument certainly is stronger with acoustics than electrics.

But my point was there is so much you can do, even if you limit yourself to variations of the "classic" shapes. Just_Guild mentioned Godin, who have done some great things with archtops and particularly guitar synthesizers. I mentioned PRS - hard to find any large production guitar maker that comes close to their diversity of woods and finishes, and they offer buyers custom builds, too. Regarding "shape", both of these makers' selection of models still sort of fit onto your description, with some variation.

We could also discuss quality control as a way to differentiate in the guitar market. This may be the single biggest issues that has plagued Gibson. I'm simply saying that there are many ways to differentiate yourself in any market, including guitars. Gibson, IMHO, has rode the "be like your guitar heroes and buy a Les Paul" as far as they can take it.

BTW, speaking of shapes, remember when Gibson sued PRS for their "single cut" model? PRS had to stop production for years until the court case was resolved, which they won. Although there were plenty of small variations between the guitars, Gibson claims they owned the "shape" of the Les Paul. Others manufacturers had used the shape before PRS (including Guild with the Les-Paul-like Bluesbird), but PRS apparently worried Gibson more than anyone else.

walrus
 

jwsamuel

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Sandy, you aren't playing entry level Martins or Taylors. Neither am l.

We're spoiled lil brats!

High end too. Compare a high-end Martin to a similarly priced guitar from Collings, Huss & Daltoin, Bourgeois, etc.
 
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