New from Oxnard: USA series "F-40 Jumbo"

adorshki

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Makes me wonder if they are still restricted by CA regulations and the gloss finish is more of an issue.
If they didn't have their certs they wouldn't even be able to produce the D40 traditional with gloss finish.
They said they had their certs even before they shipped the first M20's in satin varnish.
Like Harry (Gilded) said I'm sure it's all about cost to make a gloss NCL finish.
It's not just the buffing time but the cure time between coats as well.
And ya gotta hang 'em somewhere while that's going on, too.
As for $500.00 price difference, I'm not seeing an actual 16" lower bout Westerly Collection model yet, so don't know if comparing apples to apples.
As mentioned earlier the original F40 was 16" lower bout, and the F48 was a variation on the F50 with 17" lower bout.
F47's were hog-bodied F40's.
We do know the MIC'suse African mahogany, but we've seen evidence that USA-builts are using real Honduran so there's another element of cost: use of premium woods.
Ralf, apologies I'm not watching video because I don't really expect 'em to answer the question, but do you know what the lower bout width actually is on "new" F40?
 
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Rich Cohen

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There's a F48 on ebay....

http://r.ebay.com/FoYT7X

Tommy

Selling for $2,621. I bought my F-48 on Reverb a couple years back for $1,450 with OHSC, in very good + shape. I suppose the higher price reflects its value in Japan. It is a rather scarce model though. I love the F-48 tone, a hog in jumbo size, with an older LR Baggs pickup...really rocks out in a crowded venue. I suppose the Westerly folks wanted to capitalize on the success of the F-212xl, of which the F-48 is the six string version; but it wasn't a commercial success.
 

bobouz

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The $1500 price range is a definite sweet spot.

Looks like a lot of guitar for the money - nice to see this one!
 

adorshki

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No, I don't. No specs published so far.
Ralf
THANK YOU sir.
Your work is appreciated as always.
IF indeed they're supposed to be "practice" for the F55 I have a suspicion it will turn out to be 17" lower bout.
But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for genuine F40-sized 16".
 

Walter Broes

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Makes me wonder if they are still restricted by CA regulations and the gloss finish is more of an issue.
From what I heard, that's not the problem. The problem appears to be skilled available experienced finishers - which isn't all that strange in a brand new factory they started from scratch. Finishing guitars in lacquer is a pretty specialized skill.
 

Default

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From what I heard, that's not the problem. The problem appears to be skilled available experienced finishers - which isn't all that strange in a brand new factory they started from scratch. Finishing guitars in lacquer is a pretty specialized skill.

I've seen some fugly blackbursts on some of the new guitars. I expect the experience level in the spray booth has something to do with that.
 

davismanLV

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People should stop using "gloss" as an interchangeable word for nitrocellulose lacquer. They're different things. You can get gloss with many different finishes. And satin with lacquer. So maybe use the actual finish term, instead of referring to it's SHEEN or lack thereof. I also didn't realize they're still using Traditional and Standard as trim level differentiation. They carried that over from New Hartford? I didn't know that.......
 

chazmo

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Tom, no, I don't see Traditional and Standard being maintained as distinct series (or even trim designation). Do you?
 

fronobulax

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Makes me wonder if they are still restricted by CA regulations and the gloss finish is more of an issue.

People on LTG that I believe have repeatedly said that there is no evidence that Oxnard is making finishing choices based on CA regulations that are more stringent than what New Hartford faced. Hopefully someone will chime in, or better yet, use better search-fu than mine to link to the discussion.
 

txbumper57

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Like mentioned in an earlier post, They have had the Certs and permits to Legally spray Nitro Finishes in Oxnard since before the M20/D20 was produced. They had the permits and Certs almost a year before the first M20/D20 was made. Those words came Straight from The Guild Regional Rep for my area to my Mom and Pop shop Owner/Luthier while I was present at the shop. Everyone assumed That CA Regulations on Nitro was what was holding up the Permits to start production at the factory but in reality it was a piece of equipment that was drawing too many amps.

The lack of Nitro finishes on New Guilds is a direct result of what Walter stated earlier which is the lack of Experienced Finishers at the Factory itself. We have seen a few examples of the first Nitro finished Guilds wind up on Reverb with serious finish defects as factory seconds. I think the model was the M40 (F20 for the Guild Lifers here including me).

TX
 

SFIV1967

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no, I don't see Traditional and Standard being maintained as distinct series (or even trim designation). Do you?
Well...A "normal" D-40 is basically a "standard": http://guildguitars.com/g/d-40-in-natural/
And the "better" version (Gloss Nitro, Chesterfield, scalloped Adi vs. Sitka bracing,...) is called "Traditional": http://guildguitars.com/g/d-40-traditional-in-natural/
However the "better" D-55 is not called "Traditional", maybe because there is no "standard": http://guildguitars.com/g/d-55-in-natural/

We have seen a few examples of the first Nitro finished Guilds wind up on Reverb with serious finish defects as factory seconds. I think the model was the M40.
The M-40 has a satin varnish finish, only the D-40 Traditional had a gloss nitro finish so far (before the D-55).

Ralf
 
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txbumper57

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Well...A "normal" D-40 is basically a "standard": http://guildguitars.com/g/d-40-in-natural/
And the "better" version (Gloss Nitro, Chesterfield, scalloped Adi vs. Sitka bracing,...) is called "Traditional": http://guildguitars.com/g/d-40-traditional-in-natural/
However the "better" D-55 is not called "Traditional", maybe because there is no "standard": http://guildguitars.com/g/d-55-in-natural/

The M-40 has a satin varnish finish, only the D-40 Traditional had a gloss nitro finish so far (before the D-55).

Ralf


There is also a difference in Neck Joint between between the D40 "Normal" which has a Mortise/Tenon neck joint and the D40 "Traditional" which has a Dovetail Neck joint.

Actually Ralf there were 2 M40's that popped up on Reverb around 5 months ago give or take that were Gloss Nitro Finished From Oxnard and had some Checking as well as other issues with The Nitro. They were being sold as is. Here is a link to one of them. Reverb won't show all the photos from the ad but I did post 2 that are still in the thread showing some of the checking on the top.

http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showth...sh-checking-on-the-top&highlight=Oxnard+Nitro

TX
 

davismanLV

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Tom, no, I don't see Traditional and Standard being maintained as distinct series (or even trim designation). Do you?
I don't know where I got Standard, so I may have just put that in there myself. But Ralf has mentioned "Traditional" models several times. Maybe he's referring to the Oxnard, USA built guitars? Are they calling those Traditional? Just kinda wondering. It's all just terminology but I wondered......
 

Bill Ashton

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Not sure I understand the concern regards the m/t neck joint over the dovetail (frankly, they could be bolt on for all I care), however the "African Mahogany" bit makes me frown on a high end guitar (Such as the D40 Traditional). Nothing on what this is, though it couldn't be anything other. If its Sapele, then call it Sapele or whatever and move along, don't try to market us a guitar made of materials that its not. This conversation was probably had before and I forgot..sorry, I will retreat back into my funk now :bi_polo:
 

adorshki

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Not sure I understand the concern regards the m/t neck joint over the dovetail (frankly, they could be bolt on for all I care), however the "African Mahogany" bit makes me frown on a high end guitar (Such as the D40 Traditional).
The D40 "traditional" IS Honduran, it was the D20 and M20 that had us wondering.
RayK got a response from Oxnard indicating those were Honduran as well.
 

adorshki

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I don't know where I got Standard, so I may have just put that in there myself. But Ralf has mentioned "Traditional" models several times. Maybe he's referring to the Oxnard, USA built guitars? Are they calling those Traditional? Just kinda wondering. It's all just terminology but I wondered......

So far I think we've only seen the term "Traditional" applied to the D40 since it offers 2 distinct versions.
I think I've been guilty of using old naming conventions myself when in fact Oxnard doesn't use the term "Standard".
It beats spelling out "satin varnish finished D40" every time, but hey, I'm beginning to not really give a d--n anymore.
 

Bill Ashton

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Not to be contradictory old chum :wink-new:, however from the link above:

"The Guild D-40 Traditional embodies the features that have made the D-40 one of Guild’s most beloved and revered models. Using a high-grade solid Sitka spruce top and solid African mahogany back and sides"

I don't find "solid mahogany" to provide much info either...now, if they have changed that, they've failed to put it in their description...
 

adorshki

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Not to be contradictory old chum :wink-new:, however from the link above:

"The Guild D-40 Traditional embodies the features that have made the D-40 one of Guild’s most beloved and revered models. Using a high-grade solid Sitka spruce top and solid African mahogany back and sides"

I don't find "solid mahogany" to provide much info either...now, if they have changed that, they've failed to put it in their description...

Well spank me, got this thread mixed up with another one and I think you're right, it started off by questioning whether the D20 and M20 were African or not because the D40 spec'd "African":
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?194090-Just-got-a-new-D20/page2

I'm just gonna go hide in my room now.
It was nice knowin' y'all.
 

Bill Ashton

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You just sit right there, and pay attention, LOL

From the link above, in case a reader hasn't followed it, relative to "African Mahogany":

"Comprised of a handful of species from the Khaya genus, all of which are native to Africa. Sometimes lacks the deeper reddish brown color and durability that is common for true mahogany in the Swietenia genus. Botanically, Khaya is a part of the Meliaceæ family, which not only includes mahoganies, but also Sapele (Entandrophragma cylindricum), and a host of other commercial species. Considered to be a valid substitute for Honduran Mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla), otherwise known as “Genuine Mahogany.”

Thanks for finding that for me, I didn't know there was a post so recent. I don't have a problem with them using it, just TELL US they are using it...but then, in another post, it is said their suppliers affirm Honduran Mahogany is used on the M20. So I am confused and bewildered...

That said, and just to muddy the waters a little more, the NH Standard Series D50 was made with Honduran Rosewood, which for all the world looks like a lightly stained mahogany...and frankly I rue the day I didn't buy one of those when they had them at Union Music.
 
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