Rosewood/Cites info

From Sage music . Yeah you know I love my Blueridge so let's move on , in short my back and sides is extremely figured and after digging around and finding more questions then answers I came across an ad for Blueridge from 2010 that says the back and sides are Santos Rosewood which we know looks great but it's not a true rosewood and as a result I thought why ask Saga what's up .
Back then the builds should be EIR

Now what does this have to do with Guild well we'll see .

Saga says new cites regs has caused Saga to use Santos as the new Rosewood , now does this mean it's not available no but restricted even Ben Wilborn my builder of my custom guitar was saying as much and that these changes were coming .

Maybe news to a few of you , old news to others so the big question is what's the Rosewoid Guilds going to be ?

Just updated Saga confirmed full blown Santos production on all new models .

Rayk said:

Maybe news to a few of you , old news to others so the big question is what's the Rosewoid Guilds going to be ?

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EIR is and will continue to be available.
It's extensively farmed so there's no worry about supply.
All the hoopla is about the fact that all dalbergias (true rosewoods) that were formerly unlisted have now been CITES listed , this was to prevent having to add 'em all 1 by 1 over the next few years when it's obvious that as one gets listed the big consumers move on to the next unregulated one for ease of purchase.
In this case all the species except Braz are listed in "Appendix 2", which means they just need the appropriate export certification paperwork from the producing country, in order to be brought into the US.
Here's a link to the thread containing US Fish and Wildlife Service open letter about it:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...-Regs-for-US-citizens-Official-FWS-newsletter

There's a bunch of Q & A's in the letter directed to both instrument makers and private owners.
I think most people's eyes just glaze over when they try to read it, thus all the misunderstanding of the true insignificance of "the problem".
Ya just gotta prove where or when it came from now, that's all.
And it applies to certain mahoganies and Madagascan ebony too.
If you can prove a guitar was made before is wood was CITES listed, it's automatically exempt, except for Braz.
That's the only one that still has extreme controls and is listed on "Appendix 1"

Ray.. are you going somewhere?? Just wondering is all......

Going somewhere ? Not sure what you mean Tom .

Thanks for that info info Al , Saga certainly did not ad that info into their email to me . When I get a chance I'll read through your links right now I need Coffee lots of it Haha .
Good morning .

Rayk said:

Going somewhere ? Not sure what you mean Tom .

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CITES has no effect on a guitar owner until the guitar crosses and international border. So the comment wonders if you are traveling or involved in international guitar shipments.

I did catch your comment and understood it to ask "What will guitar makers who want to sell internationally but don't want CITES hassles use for rosewood?" I'll go with Al's answer on that.

I shipped an old Martin across international borders with no issue this year.

swiveltung said:

I shipped an old Martin across international borders with no issue this year.

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Did you go through any "paperwork process"?
For one thing, if it was old enough, it probably didn't contain anything that would have required documentation.
Anything built before the materials it contains were CITES listed is considered "pre-CITES" and doesn't require documentation.
Proving something's age is where things can get sticky.
With Martin I'd imagine their s/n's are very useful if the age isn't readily apparent.
Also, if it's personal property not for resale in the destination country, it's exempt.
CITES is specifically targeted at commercial activity.

adorshki said:

Did you go through any "paperwork process"?
For one thing, if it was old enough, it probably didn't contain anything that would have required documentation.
Anything built before the materials it contains were CITES listed is considered "pre-CITES" and doesn't require documentation.
Proving something's age is where things can get sticky.
With Martin I'd imagine their s/n's are very useful if the age isn't readily apparent.
Also, if it's personal property not for resale in the destination country, it's exempt.
CITES is specifically targeted at commercial activity.

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Just the required USPS Int'l Express info in order to get a high enough insurance value. yeah, 1937 model Martin.

fronobulax said:

CITES has no effect on a guitar owner until the guitar crosses and international border. So the comment wonders if you are traveling or involved in international guitar shipments.

I did catch your comment and understood it to ask "What will guitar makers who want to sell internationally but don't want CITES hassles use for rosewood?" I'll go with Al's answer on that.

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Ahh that went right over my head lol
Thanks hehe .