Guitar Feels Stiff

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Another vote for having a competent repair/restoration tech evaluate the guitar--and that includes having your playing style and expectations evaluated. The variables governing "stiffness" in first-position playing are nut/saddle geometry and string gauge/composition. If the overall neck geometry is OK, then it's the nut and the strings that matter. And string composition is as important as the gauge numbers on the packet--core diameter/shape (round vs. hex) and wrap alloy can make a big difference. Juggling those variables is what gives a guitar its particular "playability."

(The above comes from recent experiences having my trusted luthier tweak a new-to-me instrument. He quite changed the playing characteristics of a National M1 by recutting the nut and making a new saddle. I had already changed the strings from mediums to lights, but the adjustments to the guitar really did the trick.)
 

FNG

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I'd temper my expectations that I can get an acoustic to play like an electric.
 

walrus

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I'd temper my expectations that I can get an acoustic to play like an electric.

That's an interesting point. I tried to get that to happen via string choice - tried the D'Addario NB's, tried extra light guage, etc. Although I did get a better "electric feel" I lost too much in tone. Earthwood Lights strike a nice balance (for me) - I'm sure there are other strings that would as well.

walrus
 

adorshki

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I tried the capo last night, and it did feel a little better, so maybe the nut is a hair high. I can comfortably bar F chords, which is usually my test for the nut. But maybe it can still come down a bit.
Sounds like a distinct probability.
Don't ignore the saddle while you're at it. You sound like you'd b e comfortable with a bit lower action height than what Guild used to spec in the '90's,5.5-6/64ths on bass E and 4.5-5/64ths on treble.
I seem to recall hearing of guys taking the bass E all the way down to 4.5/64th and the treble down to 3.5/64ths.

And there is something going on between different maker's string alloys. For some reason Martin Marquis 80/20's have a reputation for "feeling stiff" compared to say, the identical gauge set of D'Addarios in PB.
(I don't know about Pearse, personally)
So addressing both of those issues should help.
 
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Nuuska

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5.5-6/64ths on bass E and 4.5-5/64ths on treble.
4.5/64th and the treble down to 3.5/64ths.


SOOOO - yu are slipping and sliding towards metrics even though you still insist being "inchic" :excitement:

On pure inchic you should have written 11-12/128ths on Bass and 9-10/128ths on treble

Or is it after comma something else than decimals? Perhaps "dozenmals" - HUHH ??? :bi_polo:

While I am at it - 2,16mm to 2,34mm seems awful high if it is on first fret !!! Is it off fingerboard? In which case them frets should be of certain hight in every guitar.
 

adorshki

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SOOOO - yu are slipping and sliding towards metrics even though you still insist being "inchic" :excitement:
On pure inchic you should have written 11-12/128ths on Bass and 9-10/128ths on treble
I know you're teasing a little but I'm tired, so:
I gave 'em exactly as Guild gave 'em, in 64ths, and to be clear I never actually saw any specs published from New Hartford which is what the OP has.
If anything I'd expect them to have lowered it a slightly due to their use of medium gauge strings, but all 3 of mine came set up to the spec I mentioned without needing any adjustment, and it's perfect for my style.

While I am at it - 2,16mm to 2,34mm seems awful high if it is on first fret !!! Is it off fingerboard? In which case them frets should be of certain hight in every guitar.
NO, action height by definition is measured from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string.
Fret height is irrelevant in this measurement because what you're measuring is the distance between the fret and the string.
If frets aren't evenly dressed or if action's too low and neck's too flat, it'll show up somewhere as buzzing.
Luthiers have a tool to check frets for even height up and down the neck.
 
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Nuuska

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Howdy

My metod setting up guitar - acoustic or electric. First: adjust truss rod so that neck is straight - I know some folks prefer slight bow, but I prefer straight. Long ruler is good for checking frets. Second: set bridge/saddle height so thet action is to taste. Third: set nut hight so that action is easy on that end of scale. With electric guitars this is easy and fast, since one can always back the bridge up if nut adjusting produces buzz on frets. On acoustics I usually iterate if not sure.

5.5-6/64ths on bass E and 4.5-5/64ths on treble.
4.5/64th and the treble down to 3.5/64ths.

Those seem like fine figures in my book - some electric guitar players want it even lower.

p.s. while I include electrics in my jargon - remember, that pickuo height influences intonation, so do pickups first and intonation last.
 

Treem

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How about lowering the string gauge to 11s or even 10s with a setup?
 

adorshki

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How about lowering the string gauge to 11s or even 10s with a setup?

"IIRC" OP likes the volume of the mediums the NH guitars were spec'd for and shipped with but is used to electric and shortscale tensions and fret spacing. discussed in previous threads.
But still a good "next fix to try" suggestion if he decides to keep guitar, even at the trade-off of losing some volume with the lower tension strings.
 

adorshki

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Third: set nut hight so that action is easy on that end of scale. With electric guitars this is easy and fast, since one can always back the bridge up if nut adjusting produces buzz on frets. On acoustics I usually iterate if not sure.
Right, nut height is a lot more critical to easy fretting on acoustics so the discussion has rightfully mentioned that several times.
4.5/64th and the treble down to 3.5/64ths.
Those seem like fine figures in my book - some electric guitar players want it even lower.
Right, and when I first joined it was common for folks to mention they thought Guild's set-up was excessively high, but of course it's a lot easier to lower it to taste than raise it.
What happens when they're too low though, is that although they're a lot easier to bend, they lose a lot of "snap", clarity and volume in hammer-ons and chords.
And too often the term "plays like butter" in a for-sale listing meant the action had been lowered too much.
 

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Hey guys, just wanted to give an update on this. I think the issue might be hand pain from too much practice. I was practicing like 2hrs a day, and I don't think this neck jives with that. I had knots and cramps in the hands and they became weak. I took off practice for a week other than right hand/rhythm work, and when I revisited the D-40 it felt really good. I'm still going to put DA strings on it next change and bring it to my luthier to check the action (seems quite good to me), but yeah...while it might be slightly stiffer than some other acoustics I've played, I think the primary issue was hand fatigue and over practice. Lesson is that I can't play 1 to 2hrs on this guitar daily.
 

walrus

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I think the primary issue was hand fatigue and over practice. Lesson is that I can't play 1 to 2hrs on this guitar daily.

So... if this is true, maybe this is a sign this is not the guitar for you. IMHO, one to two hours of playing is not really that much to cause this problem. Playing all day, maybe, but a few hours? Anyway, just my two cents.

walrus
 

kostask

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The factories spec them in 64ths. This is for two reasons:

a) there are not many rulers with 1/128 scales; and
b) the divisions on a 1/128 scale are hard to see.

Most luthiers are happy with 1/32" scales. 6/64s is 3/32, 5.5/64 is just below that, but higher than 2/32. Very few players are able to feel a 1/64" action difference.
 

jmascis

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The factories spec them in 64ths. This is for two reasons:

a) there are not many rulers with 1/128 scales; and
b) the divisions on a 1/128 scale are hard to see.

Most luthiers are happy with 1/32" scales. 6/64s is 3/32, 5.5/64 is just below that, but higher than 2/32. Very few players are able to feel a 1/64" action difference.

Maybe I'm weird, but I live in the US and prefer metric system for action. I like 2.25mm or so. This one IS a bit higher. I think it's about 2.45mm.
 

jmascis

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I'm happy to report this seems to be resolved. I don't think it was the strings. I did change to D'Addarios. It wasn't a very noticeable difference. But I noticed the bass side action felt and looked a bit high, so I took it to this guy I really trust. He's just an old local who works out of his garage and therefore can really spend time with each guitar. He looked it over and sure enough the bass side was like 7/64th; I think he said he took off 1/64th or smidge more. The guitar feels so much better. That low E string being just that bit high was ruining playability and giving a really tight feel to the guitar. He only took down that side and left the other alone. Plays great now, and it feels so much less stiff. It's weird such a small amount can be so noticeable.

He said otherwise the guitar was amazing/mint and I got a great deal.

Also, I have been staying off the computer, and in general my hands have felt so much better. I think some of it was pain and cramping I was having was due to repetitive motion on the PC as well.
 

walrus

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Great! Play the guitar often!

And avoid carpal tunnel syndrome if you can. It is not conducive to guitar playing...

walrus
 
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