Bridge Pins

swiveltung

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Weight of bridge pins? someone must be joking. I guess they are held in by gravity? :>)
I will say, I bought ebony pins for one of my Guilds, they dont seem to wedge in as tight as the plastic ones. But they work fine. Probably less compressible.
 

adorshki

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I will have to say that when Guild moved to Tacoma and then later to New Hartford they seem to have shifted production focus in my opinion. I know they made a lot of wonderful guitars at Westerly but from Tacoma through New Hartford it was almost like they transitioned the company to be closer to a Boutique builder than a mass production one.
In fact at opening and roll-out of the first NH models Fender explicitly stated they were attempting to position Guild as a "near-boutique brand" and therefore wouldn't use on-line vendors or chase the Guitar Center marketing model (for the US-builts) where they were just one more logo on the wall.
They wanted the independent small brick-and-mortars that would sell them as they needed to be sold.
Unfortunately the great recession rolled in and forced changes to that business model and NH just never quite seemed to get enough air under their wings.
Also there were complaints about the lack of playable samples in the easily accessible chain stores.
 

adorshki

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Weight of bridge pins? someone must be joking. I guess they are held in by gravity? :>)
I will say, I bought ebony pins for one of my Guilds, they dont seem to wedge in as tight as the plastic ones. But they work fine. Probably less compressible.
Possibly not quite exactly the correct taper? Would result in less contact area thus less friction.
 

PTC Bernie

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With my new Breedlove, they avoided the issue completely!! I can't wait to change strings on this one...... (this is not my guitar, mine is blue)

BL4ntn.jpg


Just a suggestion when you change strings on that pinless bridge. Cut a piece of cardboard and place it against the bridge below the holes. When you pull the strings through it'll prevent the ball ends from smacking the top and putting little dings in it.

Took me a couple of string changes on mine before I realized what was happening.
 

davismanLV

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Hey Bernie, I've been meaning to thank you for the hint. I knew I'd have to be careful and was wondering HOW I was going to protect the soundboard. So thanks for the tips. I'm going to change them soon. You have to realize that as much as I love the sound of this guitar (AND I DO, A LOT!!) that these strings have been on here for over a year!! So maybe tomorrow, I'll venture into the restring project. These tuners are the BEST I have on ANY guitar!! Ever!! Even with these old worn out strings!! :encouragement:
 

jedzep

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I'm not sure why I'd be more uncomfortable with the pinless bridge. Is it the loss of interplay with the top through the bridge plate or the fear of the direct pull on the glued bridge?

Wadda' fuddyduddy! Right?
 

Rayk

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I'm not sure why I'd be more uncomfortable with the pinless bridge. Is it the loss of interplay with the top through the bridge plate or the fear of the direct pull on the glued bridge?

Wadda' fuddyduddy! Right?

Good question, to me it seems like the pull is greater on the through bridge style . Pins style has a support plate underneath that grabs the ball of the string giving support . I'm not familiar with the under support of through string bridge , some kind of screwing support or dang strong glue ?
 

kostask

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It is glued, although it is possible at some time that somebody used screws.

String break angle is usually greater on pin style bridges, which should translate into more downward pressure on the bridge.

The fact that through bridges work should be proof enough that bridge pin materials are not critical, or even of significance. And just for the record, through bridges have been in use for a long, long time, and work fine (see the 1960s Harmony 1260 for one example, but by no means the only one).
 

swiveltung

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Possibly not quite exactly the correct taper? Would result in less contact area thus less friction.

Definitely could be. I think it's probably more just they are new. Although just the thought that the industry is trying to match a taper thruout the years and designs is almost laughable. It's amazing how any micro difference in taper makes a big difference in the fit of things. (ex engineer/machinist) They are snug enough though. No movement, they protrude up out the of the bridge more actually , rather than loose. Plastic is pretty flexi stuff, the ones I replaced actually were bent from years of use. With the slot in the plastic, my guess is they compress readily. The ebony, not so much. At any rate they are working fine with no movement, but I noticed when restringing that, you have to hold the pin in well until everything is seated.
 

cutrofiano

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...but I noticed when restringing that, you have to hold the pin in well until everything is seated.
Same for my cheap but pretty bone pins from China:
First I thought they wouldn't stay in place at all, being simply too small.
Measuring them, I found them to be 100% precise and not a bit smaller than the plastic originals.
The trick is simply to hold the pin until the string is halfway under tension, as swiveltung said.

Moritz
 

jedzep

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...usually a sign that the ball end didn't seat snugly against the plate. Try bending the end into a slight dogleg so you're more likely to snag it. If the underside edge of the pin hole isn't chipped or worn string tension shouldn't move the pin.
 
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cutrofiano

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Very true, still after my personal observation plastic pins and bone pins "behave" different when it comes to willingly staying in place from the first pull of strings.

Moritz
 

Nuuska

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Hello

Bumpin´ old thread up . . .

I was reading THIS http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?196435-1979-D35-purchase

So I started to think, that if we shave the bridge to avoid neck reset ( a.k.a. head transplant :grey: ) and then ramping the peg holes - Cougar said that - the things we lose are mass of bridge plus the stability the bridge adds to that area of guitar top - so what if we simply add wood - OR METAL - underneath ? ? ? That would compensate for the lost weight and support that was shaved off.

As for pins - I had in one of my guitars one of these after I misplaced a "real" pin.


14kannatinnastat02.jpg


It is a part of modular bookshelv.

So I had that on one string and never noticed any particular difference. So that supports my thinking that putting extra stuff underneath the top and ramping the pinholes might work in some cases.

Perhaps our luthier members could tell us more.


A fairly easy, non-destructible test could be to cut a piece of metal and drill six holes and then take strings off and replace them with this added piece. The ball ends would compress it in place. No glueing required.
 
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Big-Al

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Hello

Bumpin´ old thread up . . .


A fairly easy, non-destructible test could be to cut a piece of metal and drill six holes and then take strings off and replace them with this added piece. The ball ends would compress it in place. No glueing required.

This already exists. It's called a Platemate: Link

I put one in an old Yairi with a badly worn bridge plate. It worked to keep the ball ends secure, but it wasn't heavy enough to noticeably change the tone.

I've shaved and ramped bridges on a couple of old guitars that weren't worth enough to bother with a neck reset. One was shaved quite a bit. I never noticed any appreciable tonal change their either of those . . . but it did make them playable again.

One thing that I've tried that HAS changed the tone is brass bridge pins. In general, they did increase sustain. On a couple of guitars, they changed the tone in ways I didn't like . . . making them quieter and less rich sounding. On one big boomy dreadnought, they did take away some of the excess thump, which was a good thing. On another guitar, a Larrivee, they really opened up the sound and tamed some unruly harmonics on the B string. I've concluded that it's wrong to say that adding or removing mass at the bridge will predictably do one thing or another. It seems to depend on the guitar.
 
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Nuuska

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This already exists. It's called a Platemate: Link........


Hello

That overpriced piece is way too thin - I was thinking a way larger plate made of about 3-4mm material - 0.12-0.16 inch
 

Stuball48

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Which ever bridge pin company with the best marketing strategy will be the most sold pins.
 

jedzep

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I'm on board, after years of playing, with the opinion that pins hardly affect tone, unless, of course you use metal. What matters is the ball end making solid bridgeplate contact transmitting power to the top. Slotting my pin holes and switching to unslotted pins has remedied all, and even caught gradually worn plates before it's too late and allowed the end to slither up the pin. You also get that added benefit of slightly increasing the break angle, a definite tone improver. If you don't want to re-up your pins, you can turn them 90 or 180 to snug up the ball end.

Bryan Kimsey has a good YT vid, if you'd like to get on board with the unslotted pin universe.

t6qBxq6.jpg
 

plaidseason

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I have a bone saddle and a Tusq pins on on my F44 and led to discernable improvements in tone.

Both my Simon & Patrick folk and my Art & Lutherie parlor were greatly improved by moving from plastic to ebony pins.

Another easily recognizable improvement occurred when I replaced the heavy die-cast Grover Rotomatic-ish (probably Ping) tuners on the S&P with open back tuners with ivoroid buttons. That one really surprised me.
 
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