Music Shop Incident.

Brad Little

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Posted this on the Acoustic Forum in response to a post about not being allowed to use a pick when looking at a guitar in a store. Reminded me of this incident:
About 40 years ago, I decided I wanted to learn to play the 'cello, so I went looking for a beginner's 'cello. At the time, there was a music store here that catered to the local string players (we have both a professional symphony and several civic orchestras as well as a world respected graduate music school). Before I asked about 'cellos, I noticed a vintage Gretsch archtop that looked to be in pretty good shape. I noticed the strings were slack, just barely enough tension to hold the bridge in place. I asked if they'd tune it up or let me tune it up and was told, sure, if you're going to buy it, we'll tune it for you. Well, I wasn't about to spend anything on a guitar I couldn't play first, and it left a bad taste in my mouth about the place. I had $1500 dollars in my pocket that I promptly took to a local guitar store and bought an Ibanez 2355, their ES-175 copy, and still had $1,000 left over. Still think about getting a 'cello, though.
Anybody ever had a similar experience?
Brad
 

Christopher Cozad

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...Anybody ever had a similar experience?
Brad
Great story, Brad and that indeed hit a button. 'Bout the same timeframe, somewhere in the late 70's, I walked into a small music store on the other coast that carried band instruments (for some reason, the name Conn comes to mind), among other things. If I remember correctly, I needed some strings for a performance that evening. I asked to play one of the classical guitars on the wall behind the counter. The proprietor told me that *if* I intended to purchase the guitar, she would grant my request. I am sure arrogance, on my part, played a role in my response (if not in that encounter, I made it up in others), but I remember being incredulous at her statement...after all, I was a skilled guitarist. I was a professional musician. I might even consider purchasing one of her guitars, if i could play it! I mean, how dare she! LOL I have no memory of what I told her (probably a good thing), but I do know that I left the store without purchasing anything.

I have thought about that store visit countless times. In retrospect, I am certain she (and/or her family) could not afford to replace instruments that were "practiced upon" by ne'er-do-wells having no intention of purchasing. But I was cast into a category and pre-judged wrongly, and that stuck with me. With such an education, I hope that my behavior has been better.
 

Brad Little

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....In retrospect, I am certain she (and/or her family) could not afford to replace instruments that were "practiced upon" by ne'er-do-wells having no intention of purchasing. But I was cast into a category and pre-judged wrongly, and that stuck with me. With such an education, I hope that my behavior has been better.
Yep, I think something similar went on in my case, I had the "hippie look." long hair untrimmed beard, probably my brother-in-law's army great coat. late 20s. Not what they were used to with their middle aged and older symphony customers.
Brad
 

Christopher Cozad

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For a brick-and-mortar guitar retail business, I think it's a tough call; a bit of a "no win" situation. You can easily put yourself in jeopardy by excluding potential buyers, believing you, alone, possess the wisdom needed to properly screen the legitimate "purchaser". But who (and we have a bazillion examples supporting this theory) wants to buy damaged goods?

See? That store encounter got under my skin and stayed there! LOL
 

johnny3j

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You can easily put yourself in jeopardy by excluding potential buyers, believing you, alone, possess the wisdom needed to properly screen the legitimate "purchaser".

Tough call, Chris, I understand both sides.
I remember at a NAMM Show about 10 years ago, the wife of a distributor of ours, who had gotten bored waiting for him to finish talking to one of our guys, sat down and had started tinkering with my F512, which I had at the booth as a demo instrument for 12 string Sweeteners.
Suddenly she started beating out the rhythm of a performance which was going on at a neighbouring booth - on the back of my guitar which she had turned over on her lap.


Being the NAMM show it was loud, so she was beating on my poor guitar pretty bad :worked_till_5am::livid:.
I turned around, hearing the noise and pretended to need the guitar to demonstrate one of our tuners, just to get it out of her hands.

Thankfully nothing had loosened inside the guitar and luckily there were no indentations from rings or suchlike on the rosewood back.
But DANG!
That is a horrible feeling watching your guitar possibly being damaged and being kinda helpless to prevent it happening without possibly insulting or embarrassing a customer.

The tough bit is that mostly you don't know until it's too late :indecisiveness:
 

chazmo

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It's sure one of those gray zones.

I know exactly what you guys are talking about. Personally, I've never been told to pound sand in a music store. Perhaps I'm perceived as more reputable than Chris, and I know I look more reputable than Brad. :) :) :)

If I were you, Chris, I'd jettison any guilty feelings about that. You acted the way a normal person would act who expects a store to court a sale. After all, you're the most important person in the world, right?
Any music store that gets high and mighty is playing with fire. There are certainly ways for a store to gently ask for no picks and proper handling. That said, it's a tough game.
 

GuildFS4612CE

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While I see both sides of the issue...you guys haven't tried walking into a guitar purveyor as a member of the female persuasion...you have no idea...:tongue-new:
 

Brad Little

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.... I know I look more reputable than Brad. :) :) :)

....
Hey, you haven't seen me lately, I'm definitely more reputable these days, I even shower once a month, whether I need it or not! :smug:
Brad
 

refret

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It is a tough call. Probably 20 years ago I was set up at the Philly guitar show with a dealer that I will leave unknown.
I had been asked to take a 1929 National tri-cone style 4 with a round neck, rather rare for that in itself. His mother had it given to her by an older fellow that she worked for sometime in the 1940s. It was never touched, she didn't play and her son never got into it. I was surprised by the etchings, I had never seen one quite as ornate. We took some photos and contacted National resophonic. They said it was one of four from 1929 that had been custom etched by their master engraver. Anyway, we put a price of 10K on it.
A scruffy looking guy came up, pulled a slide and thumb pick out of his pocket and started wailing on it.
A crowd started to form, he was quite talented I must say.
After a while my guitar show partner came up to me and said "Now really, does he look like he has 10K in his pocket??? Get him outta here, now". So, off he went, 10K or no 10K.......probably the latter.
 

Christopher Cozad

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While I see both sides of the issue...you guys haven't tried walking into a guitar purveyor as a member of the female persuasion...you have no idea...:tongue-new:
Too true, Jane. I can only imagine the scenarios you have encountered...

(I'll bet some of those stories would make for good reading, though, should you ever get around to writing them down) :biggrin-new:
 

Rich Cohen

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Tough call, Chris, I understand both sides.
I remember at a NAMM Show about 10 years ago, the wife of a distributor of ours, who had gotten bored waiting for him to finish talking to one of our guys, sat down and had started tinkering with my F512, which I had at the booth as a demo instrument for 12 string Sweeteners.
Suddenly she started beating out the rhythm of a performance which was going on at a neighbouring booth - on the back of my guitar which she had turned over on her lap.


Being the NAMM show it was loud, so she was beating on my poor guitar pretty bad :worked_till_5am::livid:.
I turned around, hearing the noise and pretended to need the guitar to demonstrate one of our tuners, just to get it out of her hands.

Thankfully nothing had loosened inside the guitar and luckily there were no indentations from rings or suchlike on the rosewood back.
But DANG!
That is a horrible feeling watching your guitar possibly being damaged and being kinda helpless to prevent it happening without possibly insulting or embarrassing a customer.

The tough bit is that mostly you don't know until it's too late :indecisiveness:

I was at an open mic in Charlottesville. A fellow guitarist had brought his newly purchased brand new Taylor 12 string, for which he paid about $5,500. After he performed a couple of folk songs on it, a young woman in the audience who was on the list to perform asked him if she could borrow his guitar to perform. Naively, he said yes. Well this girl, somewhere in her high teens or low twenties, with powder blue frizzed hair and combat boots, began to wail away at the Taylor. Boy was I glad she didn't ask for my Guild. I wouldn't have loaned it anyway.
 

adorshki

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Yep, I think something similar went on in my case, I had the "hippie look." long hair untrimmed beard, probably my brother-in-law's army great coat. late 20s. Not what they were used to with their middle aged and older symphony customers.
Brad
The tough bit is that mostly you don't know until it's too late :indecisiveness:
After a while my guitar show partner came up to me and said "Now really, does he look like he has 10K in his pocket??? Get him outta here, now". So, off he went, 10K or no 10K.......probably the latter.

Reminds me of the story I've told before about a lottery winner who came onto a Dodge dealer's lot where I worked, looking like he'd probably just spent his last sawbuck on crack.
Looking at brand new first-year Dodge Viper with a $50,000.00 MSRP AND a $200,000.00 dealer markup (yes for real! Due to one of only 53 and only 2 in California); he was ignored by several sales reps until somebody finally asked him what he thought of the car, by way of low-key exploration of his intentions.
That rep got the sale. Granted with that particular car the rules were a bit different:
When he said he'd just won the lottery, they checked that out before they let him take a drive with service manager, who was the only employee on the lot allowed to take the car on test drives.
If it'd been just another car on the lot they wouldn't even have checked his credit until he'd had a test drive and was actually making a purchase offer.

And that's why they taught us never to "eyeball" customers when selling cars.
Still, the question about purchase intent can be handled with a whole lot more tact and generate customer trust instead of resentment.
I happened to be off that day or I guarantee you I would have at least "greeted" the guy, too..I heard it all the next day....
:crying:
 
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mavuser

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You all need to come to New York, all the shops seem to let me play anything without any supervision or instructions/requests. in all my years of demoing stuff in shops, just one time- it was actually a Guitar Center of all places- the guy saw me with a floor model tele (USA $899 or so) and just politely said "would you please be careful about the zipper on your jacket possibly scratching the guitar while you play, or maybe just remove your jacket." seemed like a reasonable enough request for someone fondling a brand new $1000 beautiful sunburst USA tele, that they had zero intention of buying. so yes, i took my jacket off, of course. the guy was not watching or anything, he just asked me to be courteous and went along with whatever he was doing.
 

Christopher Cozad

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...be courteous...
Courtesy, genuine courtesy. It is impressive how meaningful it can be, how impactful it can be, especially among strangers or first encounters. Not to mention: guitar stores. I realize there are plenty of people who (claim they) are not affected by or could care less about courteous/discourteous behavior. They may be the ones who need to see it from me the most.
 

wileypickett

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A friend of mine told me a story about visiting a used record store while on a road trip through the midwest in the '80s. The store was run by a husband and wife, and you weren't allowed to touch the records. If you went to flip through the bins one of them smacked your hand with a long wooden switch! You had to know exactly what you wanted; you told them, and they looked for it for you.

Many music stores that have their instruments out and accessible put notes on their guitars saying "please ask a clerk for help with this instrument" or something to that effect. This allows someone in the store to quickly assess their customers, to ask them to take off their jacket if need be, etc. Reasonable policy IMO.

Most music stores have their rarest instruments behind a counter or in a locked display case -- and for good reason!

I once saw someone at a store attempt to put a guitar back on its wall-hook, miss the hook, and drop the guitar to the floor, which luckily was carpeted. The clerk who rescued the guitar -- apparently not damaged -- was not happy, and he let the customer know it.
 
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walrus

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Courtesy, genuine courtesy. It is impressive how meaningful it can be, how impactful it can be, especially among strangers or first encounters. Not to mention: guitar stores. I realize there are plenty of people who (claim they) are not affected by or could care less about courteous/discourteous behavior. They may be the ones who need to see it from me the most.

Well said, Christopher!

walrus
 

dreadnut

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Year ago (80's) I was at a party, this guy's young girlfriend, about 20 I guess, asked if she could play my D-25. At first I gave her the hairy eyeball, but then I said "Sure - here ya go," not expecting much. She proceeded to play Zeppelin's "I'm Gonna Leave You Babe" note for note. I said "Can you teach me how to do that?" And she did.
 

dreadnut

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Took my buddy to Elderly Instruments once, we were in the acoustic room; he backed into a $2K Martin they had just sitting in a stand out on the floor, he knocked it right to the ground, ouch. I guess I wouldn't set 'em right out there on unprotected stand, on the other hand maybe another customer put it there.
 

Christopher Cozad

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...I once saw someone at a store attempt to put a guitar back on its wall-hook, miss the hook, and drop the guitar to the floor, which luckily was carpeted. The clerk who rescued the guitar -- apparently not damaged -- was not happy, and he let the customer know it.
Eww...ugh...argh...can you imagine being the owner of the establishment? Play this scenario out a few times and you may start to hear that classic conversation that sounds like, 'Hello, Rock, let me introduce to you to Hard Place'.

The owner is asking, 'Let me see, I wonder if I can send a "damaged" guitar back to the factory/luthier? No? Fine, then I'll file an insurance claim and pay a higher premium 6 months from now (just like I did 6 months ago).'

And/or they're asking, 'I wonder if I should lock my "better" instruments up and profile every potential customer? Or maybe I should only carry the "I can afford to have this destroyed" models, and offer better instruments via Special Order, only?'

And, eventually, they are asking, 'Where are all the customers?'

I do not envy the brick-n-mortar guitar shops/music stores. Actually, regardless of their individual policies, I applaud them and their efforts.
 

Christopher Cozad

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...I guess I wouldn't set 'em right out there on unprotected stand...
Or, you have dozens of customers who never have a negative incident, and you sell dozens of instruments, and you don't really expect some imbecile to step into/onto a guitar. LOL (was that too harsh? I was practicing my brick-n-mortar guitar store owner proprietor voice.)
 
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