Humbucking versus single coil acoustic pickup

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Can anybody give any direction/guidance in the choice of choosing a single coil or humbucking soundhole pickup for an acoustic guitar. It's going in a Guild D12-25 and I was looking at the Fishman Neo D line as I did not want to spend alot for home use only. Let me state that I am fully aware of the differences in an electric but have never put a pickup in an acoustic. What are the plus's and minus's of each? would a humbucker be to heavy sounding in an acoustic or would the single coil be too thin? Help!
 
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Neal

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Essentially, you can expect the same differences between single coil and humbucker in an acoustic as in an electric, except acoustic guitars are not really designed to work well with either.

I own an '81 D-212 (the model was was later re-numbered as D-25-12). It has a K&K pure mini bridgeplate transducer, which I think provides a much more "acoustic" tone. $99 plus installation ($35 or so).
 
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I did some research on the K&K Pure mini and it looks like a possible option. It certainly got good reviews. I do have a question for you. I see that K&K makes (for the same price) a Pure 12-string model. Why did you not get that one?
 

Christopher Cozad

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Can anybody give any direction/guidance in the choice of choosing a single coil or humbucking soundhole pickup for an acoustic guitar...!
The typical response regarding the difference between the two goes something like:

Humbuckers are "warm", where single coils are "thin".

Single coils are "chime-y", where humbuckers are "thick".

The Neo-D is available as both a single coil (lower price) and a humbucker (costs more). Both Dean Markley and Seymour-Duncan offer similar choices with their ProMag and Woody pickups, respectively. The more expensive Fishman Rare Earth and Blackstack are humbuckers. As are the Sunrise and Baggs M1 and M80.

Frankly, the humbucker better respects acoustic "properties", where the single coil is, well, downright "reedy" sounding. The Neo-D, by Fishman's own admission, is a low-cost solution. There is nothing wrong with either the pickup or with pursuing a low-cost solution. But back up just a few feet for an overview:

If you want to get down and dirty with your acoustic, and already have an electric pedalboard, a magnetic soundhole-mounted pickup will get you there. The more expensive models can also get surprisingly close to a "natural" sounding acoustic guitar, especially when blended with another technology (piezo or mic). Single coil pickups are more susceptible to "hum" than are humbuckers (hence the name), but cost less. And they are super-simple to install.

If you are trying to squeeze out a bit more "natural" sound out of your guitar, and if you are willing to invest just a bit more money, a SoundBoard Transducer may be more pleasing to your ears. I believe that, for $99 (and some installation effort), the K&K Pure 12 string SBT that you identified will, when installed correctly, be a very satisfying solution. If you want to improve even more upon the sound then, down the road, you can invest in an outboard acoustic guitar preamp.
 
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Christopher Cozad

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By the way, the K&K type pickups are also available for about 1/2!the cost from JJB. They're my go to pups.
http://www.jjb-electronics.com
You are right, Chris. I have neglected to mention JJB, more than once. I need to invest in some samples and give them a thorough comparison testing. I have heard from more than one person that they are an excellent SoundBoard Transducer.
 

txbumper57

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By the way, the K&K type pickups are also available for about 1/2!the cost from JJB. They're my go to pups.
http://www.jjb-electronics.com
http://www.jjb-electronics.com/prestige-330.html

I know that there are probably other pieces in that signal chain but the clip on their homepage of the the gentleman from Sweden playing his Blueridge with their Prestige 330 model pickup sounds really good in my opinion. Only thing I can hear that I don't like is that it is not crystal clear but that probably has to do more with Compression added to the sound clip than the pickup itself. Still, If I were in the market for a Transducer style pickup like the K&K I would definitely take a chance and see what the JJB 330 had to offer. I'm sure they sound different on different guitars like all pickups do but overall I like the clip enough to give them a shot for sure. Thanks for the links Acorn, This is the first I have heard of them.


TX
 
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Over the years I have tried to use different sound hole pickups...to no avail! I've never heard one that brings out the true sound of an acoustic guitar. And, they're just in the way! And look ugly!
Plus, I've never had much luck with string-to-string volume balance using those (even those with adjustable pole pieces). I've purchased a couple of guitars with sound hole pickups and replaced them with K&K.
Plus...sound hole pickups kinda chew up the sound hole after awhile.
After a bunch of trial and error with transducers, piezos, etc, I have DTAR in my F50, and K&K in all my other acoustics. The K&K greatly benefit from the K&K Mini preamp.
 

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I just purchased a K&K Pure preamp to go with the four guitars I have that are equipped with K&K Pure Mini pickups.

I will provide a full report after it is battle-tested.

I have been using a larger floor unit made by BBE Acoustimax, which is great for shows but not so hot for open mic situations. I can't seem to get the volume or tone I want out of the K&K straight into the mixer.
 

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Very fond of the inexpensive Lawrence 245C. Mounts very easy with no using screws etc. I had Fishman and Baggs and like the Lawrence better, Go figure. The 245C has a little volume knob also. But there are 245, 245, 300 series etc.
Here's one without the volume option:
 

Christopher Cozad

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...I had Fishman and Baggs and like the Lawrence better, Go figure...
Ages ago (late 1970's ?) I walked into a swanky restaurant and immediately recognized the sound of a live 12 string guitar. I quickly located the source, a young lady playing a Guild F-412 with a Bill Lawrence magnetic soundhole pickup (I think it was one of the original 145's) running through a battery-powered MXR 10-band graphic EQ, running through a Mutron Phasor II (and not abused). It sounded wonderful, just wonderful.
 
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I just purchased a K&K Pure preamp to go with the four guitars I have that are equipped with K&K Pure Mini pickups.

I will provide a full report after it is battle-tested.

I have been using a larger floor unit made by BBE Acoustimax, which is great for shows but not so hot for open mic situations. I can't seem to get the volume or tone I want out of the K&K straight into the mixer.


I have had the K&K Pure Preamp for quite awhile now, use it as part of my rig for part of my live shows, or if I'm just sitting in somewhere, I use it between my guitar and d.i. You can use it either by battery power or D.C. if you have the little iSpot adapter. It has a little belt clip on it too. If you're using the k&k mini without a volume control, it gives you complete control! It is amazing and I highly recommend it! And it takes care of any mismatched ohm issues for using with any p.a. system or amp or preamp! And volume for days!! And it sounds great!
It's small and easy to use, with master volume, bass, mid, and treble. I even use it with my DTAR-equipped F-50!
I also use it as s sort of PRE-preamp in front of my Fishman Aura Spectrum preamp.
 

plaidseason

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I'm a huge fan of the Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker. It's been my much preferred live pickup for a few years now. To be fair I'm not aiming for a full-on "natural" acoustic sound when I'm plugged in. But with that said, people regularly compliment my guitar tone.

Here's a "studio" recording where I'm using the Rare Earth Humbucker through a Fishman Pro-EQ and Yamaha Magicstomp multi-effects pedal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee8aIdAYD_Y&list=PL9xvfBX5j5_FZsCtsB7viQ__Zn2VGnWFI&index=10
 

crank

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Regarding the K&K Mini. I have one in both my and 12 string Guilds. I was going to get the 12 string model for my 12, but my luthier recommended I stick with the regular. It sounds great in both guitars. I use a Fishman preamp.
 

Christopher Cozad

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... To be fair I'm not aiming for a full-on "natural" acoustic sound when I'm plugged in...
That is a nice sound, Chris, and you make a great point. Discussions regarding acoustic guitar pickups often revolve around the seemingly never-ending quest to accurately amplify the sound of the guitar without adding anything to or taking anything away from it "natural acoustic" tone. The fact that so many of us (- me) are still hunting for the end-all, be-all solution is a bit ironic. I mean, we all listen to and enjoy performances that are using some (dare I say) some "compromised" form of amplification. So maybe, just maybe, it can be more about creating a pleasing sound than a perfect reproduction. To quote the lyrics of your song, "...it's become an obsession to me..."
 

plaidseason

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That is a nice sound, Chris, and you make a great point. Discussions regarding acoustic guitar pickups often revolve around the seemingly never-ending quest to accurately amplify the sound of the guitar without adding anything to or taking anything away from it "natural acoustic" tone. The fact that so many of us (- me) are still hunting for the end-all, be-all solution is a bit ironic. I mean, we all listen to and enjoy performances that are using some (dare I say) some "compromised" form of amplification. So maybe, just maybe, it can be more about creating a pleasing sound than a perfect reproduction. To quote the lyrics of your song, "...it's become an obsession to me..."

Yeah, if you want a true/or close to true acoustic sound, then you should just mic the guitar, whether that's with a quality condenser mic, or with an SM57 (which is what Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings used to use).

I was fortunate to have a conversation with producer Terry Manning a while back about Gimmer Nicholson, the semi-unknown Memphis guitarist whose sound was hugely influential for Chris Bell of Big Star. People are always asking Terry how he was able to get such full and clear acoustic tones, and Terry explains, often to their disbelief, that most of the acoustic guitar sounds are actually recorded using a Gibson Howard Roberts acoustic-electric.

http://www.vintageguitar.com/9525/howard-roberts-2/

So basically, a clean humbucker pickup signal with various reverbs and delays.

After that I felt that my mission was sort of fully affirmed.
 
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