Over on the AGF Ren Ferguson did not retire after all...he's in China!!!

mcduffnw

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I don't know if any of you are Acoustic Guitar Forumites...

But over on the AGF a thread in the General Guitar Discussion Section just popped up.

Ren did not leave from Cordoba/Guild and go back to Montana to retire...at least not for long apparently! He has gone to China to help lead the set up a brand new state of the art Pac Rim guitar factory with Shadow Electronics...who make guitar pickups and a line of electric and some limited acoustic guitars, sold mostly overseas. So Ren is over there helping to create a new SOOA factory to build primarily, I believe, acoustics.

Sooooooo...I now wonder to myself...why did Ren REALLY leave Cordoba/Guild???...cuz it sure wasn't really to flat out retire back to Bozeman, or parts thereby, and tinker with guitars, mandolins, and custom gun stocks/vintage repro firearms.

Check the thread out over on the AGF...there is a brief video too where Ren mentions that they will not be using rosewood in their guitars for the immediate future because of import/export rules,regs, and restrictions.

Do I remember properly from the thread here on Ren leaving Cordoba/Guild, that Ren left based at least a little bit on, and in some parts his frustrations with, being away from Montana and also with the slog of dealing with Cali rules, regs, and restrictions in setting up the new Guild factory?

China is a lot further away from the Big Sky Country than Cali...and rules,regs, and restrictions are still a slog...even over there.

Things that make you go hhhhhmmmmmmmmm....

duff

PS...I did post on that thread, and some of you whom are very diehard Ren fans may not like all that I had to say about Ren's tenure at FMIC/Guild and Cordoba/Guild. While I really do respect Ren's knowledge and skill, and especially the truly amazing work he did in re-building Gibson Acoustic, in my personal opinion, which it not worth anymore than anyone else's, the work he did for Guild was not of the caliber of his Gibson work, and very problematic for Guild in some important aspects. I just mention this so as to warn that I was not out to offend anyone...as I managed to do over there on the AGF thread already...but it is just my long held opinion about the whole Ren/Guild situation...and again...my opinion is just that, and perhaps not as informed as some of yours about all this...

Still...a very interesting thread about Ren over there...worth a look and your thoughts and opinions!
 

txbumper57

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Here is a thread where we discussed this topic earlier. Good for Ren!

Ren did design the Guild factory in Oxnard but I think he kind of got fed up with the direction things were going. I am one of the lucky ones to own a few of his Guild Custom Shop Orpheum series guitars that he had full control over building at New Hartford and if I ever find more I will snatch them up as they are some of the finest guitars out there in my opinion. Interested to see what he creates in his new endeavor.

http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?193408-Ren-Ferguson-s-new-job-in-China


TX
 
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dreadnut

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I'm sorry, but the new Gibson acoustics I've checked out and played at GC and other music stores as well, for at least the last 10-12 years have been very disappointing. Sloppy neck-to-body joints, uneven inlays, soundholes not even sanded or finished, played one nice jumbo with a moustache bridge that had a blob of glue right next to the bridge on both sides (I had to point this out to the sales kid at GC.) And Gibson still wants $2,500 for a basic mahogany box with a decal on the headstock. I'm sure they probably produced some nice ones under Ren's tutelage, but I'm just Joe Blow and I managed to put my hands on several Gibsons with poor workmanship in the last decade, seems like an inordinate number of sloppily-built guitars for one person to run across, unless that is typical of the product being shipped to the stores. No? Next time you're at the guitar store, inspect them very closely. You won't find a similar Martin or Taylor with those issues, and I hope not a new Guild either!

OK, I shall get off my soapbox now. In my previous life, I was a Manufacturing Quality Manager so I have some strong opinions on poor quality.
 

PTC Bernie

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I have a feeling that part of the reason that Ren left Guild was the new emissions rules that AQMD and the state of CA instituted very shortly after he went to Cordoba. There are enough restrictions on businesses out there and the new regs on VOC's and other emissions may have been just enough to push him over the top.

Also, California isn't for everyone. I spent 15 years there and was never so happy as the day I left.
 

twocorgis

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I have a feeling that part of the reason that Ren left Guild was the new emissions rules that AQMD and the state of CA instituted very shortly after he went to Cordoba. There are enough restrictions on businesses out there and the new regs on VOC's and other emissions may have been just enough to push him over the top.

The New Hartford plant in CT had to adhere to the very same VOC restrictions, as all the northeastern states had adopted the CARB's standards on vehicle emissions and industrial pollution. If it didn't push him over the top in CT, I doubt it did in CA. Personally, I have no problem with them either. I like clean air!
 

Christopher Cozad

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Leaving CA for China in search of less strict emissions regulations could be a smart move.

beijing-pollution.jpg
 

Westerly Wood

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Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/7-dOhRbwE08

Ren discusses Shdow guitars and the woods that will be used, his role there.

Kaya back and sides. All solid woods. Roasted European spruce, must mean torified. Don't know. He is super impressed with efficiency of the plant.

And why no rosewood used: https://youtu.be/SvoLX8P7Dbw
 
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mcduffnw

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Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/7-dOhRbwE08

Ren discusses Shdow guitars and the woods that will be used, his role there.

Kaya back and sides. All solid woods. Roasted European spruce, must mean torified. Don't know. He is super impressed with efficiency of the plant.

And why no rosewood used: https://youtu.be/SvoLX8P7Dbw

Hi WW and All...

But...why does Ren say he is retiring to go back to Montana and then turn around and go to China to do what he had just done and could have contiuned to do in Cali with Cordoba?

Why not go home to Big Sky and actually build guitars. I am QUITE sure that he would have no problem getting a very fine price for his own personal work, and have no trouble amassing quite a number of orders...as many as he would ever want to fill per year...in fairly short order.

For a guy who is known as a master luthier, who supposedly really loves to build guitars...he is spending a lot of time not retiring and not building guitars, but building up another factory.

It just all seems kinda odd

Kinda 2+2=5

At least to me...

duff

Oh...and as far as the "rosewood issue"...I don't buy that one either as Yamaha, Eastman, Takamine, Saga/Blueridge, Alvarez Yairi, Ibanez...you name it over there, have been and are importing/exporting rosewood with evidently little difficulty for quite some time.
 

bobouz

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I'm sorry, but the new Gibson acoustics I've checked out and played at GC and other music stores as well, for at least the last 10-12 years have been very disappointing. Sloppy neck-to-body joints, uneven inlays, soundholes not even sanded or finished, played one nice jumbo with a moustache bridge that had a blob of glue right next to the bridge on both sides (I had to point this out to the sales kid at GC.) And Gibson still wants $2,500 for a basic mahogany box with a decal on the headstock. I'm sure they probably produced some nice ones under Ren's tutelage, but I'm just Joe Blow and I managed to put my hands on several Gibsons with poor workmanship in the last decade, seems like an inordinate number of sloppily-built guitars for one person to run across, unless that is typical of the product being shipped to the stores. No? Next time you're at the guitar store, inspect them very closely. You won't find a similar Martin or Taylor with those issues, and I hope not a new Guild either!

Within the time period you've mentioned, I've seen new USA-made Martins with poor neck angles, binding-purfling that didn't line up properly, and discolored binding, to name some issues that jumped out at me. I've never connected with Taylors, so can't speak first-hand about their recent workmanship. The ones I've handled in the past were very cleanly constructed.

I own five Montana Gibsons, three from Ren's era. None of them display the kind of issues you mention. Two were produced after Ren's departure, and they likewise exhibit no flaws.

Does this mean you're wrong & I'm right? No, it's just the luck of the draw. That said, I will readily admit that Martin & Taylor do produce a more consistent cookie-cutter product. Unfortunately, Martins no longer do much for me, and Taylors aren't on my radar. As for Gibsons, if you have been exposed to and crave the historic signature tone of various models, it will most likely require a more extensive search to find a stellar example - but they are most definitely out there.

Ren must receive major credit for bringing Gibson acoustics back from the darkness, and for bringing back the best of Gibson's vintage tone. Over the course of his long tenure there (through high & low periods he has referenced in interviews), many fine and desirable instruments were produced. But imho, his greatest achievements began in 1999, when he guided Montana into an era of producing highly accurate reissues of Gibson's golden era models such as the J-45, J-50, J-185, and of course the J-200. Accolades from reviewers began to flow shortly thereafter, stating that Montana was now building some of the finest Gibson acoustics ever made.

Regardless of whatever he has chosen to do after leaving Gibson, I will always be highly appreciative of his efforts in Bozeman.
 
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fronobulax

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Hi WW and All...

But...why does Ren say he is retiring to go back to Montana and then turn around and go to China to do what he had just done and could have contiuned to do in Cali with Cordoba?

Why not go home to Big Sky and actually build guitars. I am QUITE sure that he would have no problem getting a very fine price for his own personal work, and have no trouble amassing quite a number of orders...as many as he would ever want to fill per year...in fairly short order.

For a guy who is known as a master luthier, who supposedly really loves to build guitars...he is spending a lot of time not retiring and not building guitars, but building up another factory.

It just all seems kinda odd

Kinda 2+2=5

At least to me...

duff

Oh...and as far as the "rosewood issue"...I don't buy that one either as Yamaha, Eastman, Takamine, Saga/Blueridge, Alvarez Yairi, Ibanez...you name it over there, have been and are importing/exporting rosewood with evidently little difficulty for quite some time.

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is somewhat different. I formed my opinion from being in the same room as Ren in New Hartford, breathing the same air and listening to what he had to say. I then read news articles and watch videos and I remember those that support my opinion and tend to forget those that don't.

I believe his recent goals and motivation are not to make the best guitars in the world but to make the factory and production line that make the best guitars in the world. Note that the definition of "best" in both statements is slightly different because hand made boutique instruments are not always comparable to factory made instruments targeted at a price (or profit) point.

So... He comes out of retirement to accept an offer to have a major influence on what Guild makes and how it gets made. He has fun, can point to Orpheum series as his crowning achievement but is willing to step away when Guild is sold because ultimately he was not in charge of the factory but only making Guilds there and so there were things he wanted to change but could not. Cordoba comes along and says "we have this empty building that we need to turn into a guitar factory. Do you want to be in charge?" Obvious answer is Yes. Since he's more interested in the "design" process than in operating the factory, once the new place is on its feet, he steps back. And now someone else comes along with the chance to do it again, but this time it's not in the US, there are some construction innovations that are new to him and the resulting instrument is somewhat not-traditional but may represent the future of the guitar.

So what seems kind of odd to you seems like a natural progression to me but we differ on the goals and motivations we think drives him.

And "retirement" is not what it used to. The days of staying home and collecting a pension from the most recent employer are gone. An awful lot of folks use the time to do something similar but different and not do it full time. Ren seems to fit that pattern. "If it is fun or interesting then I am going to do it."
 

dreadnut

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I just don't think the quality of a high-end American-made acoustic guitar should come down to "the luck of the draw." It shouldn't be up to me (the customer) to sort them out. Like I said, I'm sure Gibson made some good ones during Ren's tenure there, but I found way too many that never should have gotten to the end of the production line let alone be shipped to the dealers.
 

Westerly Wood

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Hi WW and All...

But...why does Ren say he is retiring to go back to Montana and then turn around and go to China to do what he had just done and could have contiuned to do in Cali with Cordoba?

Why not go home to Big Sky and actually build guitars. I am QUITE sure that he would have no problem getting a very fine price for his own personal work, and have no trouble amassing quite a number of orders...as many as he would ever want to fill per year...in fairly short order.

For a guy who is known as a master luthier, who supposedly really loves to build guitars...he is spending a lot of time not retiring and not building guitars, but building up another factory.

It just all seems kinda odd

Kinda 2+2=5

At least to me...

duff

Oh...and as far as the "rosewood issue"...I don't buy that one either as Yamaha, Eastman, Takamine, Saga/Blueridge, Alvarez Yairi, Ibanez...you name it over there, have been and are importing/exporting rosewood with evidently little difficulty for quite some time.

ah, see I just do not really care.

Ren has achieved enough and it is no easy task even for him to get a personal shop/brand up and running, what a freakin hassle, especially at his age.
why not ride out to sunset consulting and sharing his wisdom. clearly he and Joe are old buds, why not drink a few cold beers, share old stories and take advantage of a highly efficient guitar shop ready to rock.

I just do not see Ren wanting to build the house all over again from ground up. :) i say good for him!
 

dreadnut

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He can do what he wants, and I wish him well. I can only imagine how brain dead he must have been after trying to set up shop at Cordoba, dealing with the boondoggle of California regulations. Not the frustration level I would want at this point in my life. On the flip side, I'm sure there are places in China where you can still dump used solvents into the river behind the manufacturing plant.

Hopefully, Ren will be able to build some common sense, environmentally sound practices into their manufacturing process.
 
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twocorgis

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He can do what he wants, and I wish him well. I can only imagine how brain dead he must have been after trying to set up shop at Cordoba, dealing with the boondoggle of California regulations. Not the frustration level I would want at this point in my life. On the flip side, I'm sure thee are places in China where you can still dump used solvents into the river behind the manufacturing plant.

You say that like it's a good thing! I said before (and it's true) that he had to comply with the same regulations in CT, and it wasn't a deal breaker there. The fact that we have to deal over here with all the air pollution China creates makes me grateful that even China is starting to take environmental preservation seriously.
 
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