This F50 was a dud!

tarheelguild

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I just got back from visiting my old stomping grounds of NYC. While visiting the West Village, my wife and I dropped into the famous guitar shop owned by Matt Umanov, on Bleecker St. They have a '78 F50 in beautiful condition. Unfortunately, this example looked a lot better than it sounded. I asked my wife (who doesn't play) what she thought and she said it sounded "weak and tinny". I had to agree. To my ears, the guitar sounded like the body was full of foam rubber. It had no resonance or warmth and sounded dead. After playing it a few minutes, I looked at the price tag and it was $2598 (I guess being in NYC hiked the price a bit)!! This was the first time I'd ever held and played an F50 and it sure was a disappointment. To be sure it was set up beautifully and was in excellent condition, but the sound... well.
Just thought I had to report this sighting on LTG. Thoughts and comments from any of you F50 owners out there?

Tony

'84 D40
'96 D25 CH
'96 D4
'98 D225
'98 D30 AB
'00 Taylor 414ce
 

Rich Cohen

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Have you played maple guitars? If not, you may have been surprised by the tone. Then again, that particular one could have suffered from the occasional "maple tone effect," which can be tinny in extreme examples. I'm assuming the strings were new. The type of string could have been something of a factor as well.
 

bobouz

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I'm very fond of maple bodied guitars & own quite a few of them (both Guilds & Gibsons).

Within the last couple of years, I recall playing a '70s F-50 that was a complete yawner.

Duds do happen from time to time.
 
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tarheelguild

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Rich,
I have a '98 D30 AB which is maple and blew this F50 out of the pond. To be fair, the strings on the F50 could've been dead, but there just seemed to be no "umph" behind the tone at all.
 

dreadnut

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Played an F-412 I shoulda bought at GC years ago...$900...very lively...
 

txbumper57

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When I was hunting for my F50 Maple I knew I loved New Hartford builds but I figured I would try out whatever I could find that wasn't a New Hartford build just to see what was out there. I got a chance to play 2 different 70's F50 Maples in which one was a 72 and one was a 78 or 79. The 72 model sounded good to me. It was somewhat lively, resonant, had decent sustain, and projection. However it seemed to me there was a smaller "sweet spot" of response when I was playing it than I am used to. You did have to drive it a bit to get it in that sweet spot and if you added just a bit more it would start getting muddy.

The 78 or 79 model that I played had no sweet spot and honestly to me sounded dead as a door nail. That could be from lack of play or a number of things but I specifically remember after about 3 minutes of playing I just put it down and walked away. It didn't do anything for me.

The others I tried out included a late 90's JF65 and a Tacoma F50 Maple. The late 90's JF65 sounded good to me but it lacked the "Sparkle" I enjoy with some Maple guitars. Still it had good tone for what it was but once again it took some driving to get it in that sweet spot and if you tried to finger pick it you really had to put some effort into it to get some tone response out of it.

The 2008 Tacoma F50 Maple was a completely different story. It immediately had touch response to it and sounded really nice an crisp when finger picked. It also performed well when strumming it either lightly or pushing it a bit. Much bigger "sweet spot" in my opinion and to me a much more articulate instrument with that bit of sparkle I look for in Maple guitars.

Playing and liking the Tacoma model led me to go ahead and try out a New Hartford F50 Maple. When I did it was like someone turned all of the aspects I was testing out and looking for in the other F50's or JF65's to 11 and did a mic drop. Wonderful touch response and the sweet spot is pretty much the entire tonal range of the guitar. Tons of projection, sustain, resonance, and lovely Maple Sparkle. The guitar sounds Amazing whether you are using the lightest touch while fingerpicking it in which it picks up all those subtle little nuances or Driving it home strumming in which is sounds like an entire string section is playing along with you. It also flat picks extremely well. I was sold in the first three minutes of playing that guitar and not because of where it was made but because of what the guitar itself had to offer. It is on my never sell no matter what list.

Bottom line is all guitars are different in my opinion even of the same model and woods. I have heard late 70's F50's that sounded amazing and I have also played one that sounded dead. I'm sure there are examples of that from all eras of Manufacturing. It just seems to me that Maple more so than others is a tonewood that you need to try out in person to make sure that particular guitar is what you are looking for.

I know it has been mentioned here before but I know of a Mom and Pop shop that won't order Maple Guitars unless they can play them first at the manufacturer because they have received (and I hate to use this term with guitars but) duds in the past that they don't want sitting on the wall for 2 years not selling.

TX
 
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Neal

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My F-50 Standard from New Hartford has kicked a lot of guitars out the door, many of them "higher-end".

I think it is at its best as a fingerpicker, which sounds crazy as big as it is. If only it had a 1 3/4" nut.
 

tarheelguild

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Sounds like '78 was a bad year for F50's!
When I was hunting for my F50 Maple I knew I loved New Hartford builds but I figured I would try out whatever I could find that wasn't a New Hartford build just to see what was out there. I got a chance to play 2 different 70's F50 Maples in which one was a 72 and one was a 78 or 79. The 72 model sounded good to me. It was somewhat lively, resonant, had decent sustain, and projection. However it seemed to me there was a smaller "sweet spot" of response when I was playing it than I am used to. You did have to drive it a bit to get it in that sweet spot and if you added just a bit more it would start getting muddy.

The 78 or 79 model that I played had no sweet spot and honestly to me sounded dead as a door nail. That could be from lack of play or a number of things but I specifically remember after about 3 minutes of playing I just put it down and walked away. It didn't do anything for me.

The others I tried out included a late 90's JF65 and a Tacoma F50 Maple. The late 90's JF65 sounded good to me but it lacked the "Sparkle" I enjoy with some Maple guitars. Still it had good tone for what it was but once again it took some driving to get it in that sweet spot and if you tried to finger pick it you really had to put some effort into it to get some tone response out of it.

The 2008 Tacoma F50 Maple was a completely different story. It immediately had touch response to it and sounded really nice an crisp when finger picked. It also performed well when strumming it either lightly or pushing it a bit. Much bigger "sweet spot" in my opinion and to me a much more articulate instrument with that bit of sparkle I look for in Maple guitars.

Playing and liking the Tacoma model led me to go ahead and try out a New Hartford F50 Maple. When I did it was like someone turned all of the aspects I was testing out and looking for in the other F50's or JF65's to 11 and did a mic drop. Wonderful touch response and the sweet spot is pretty much the entire tonal range of the guitar. Tons of projection, sustain, resonance, and lovely Maple Sparkle. The guitar sounds Amazing whether you are using the lightest touch while fingerpicking it in which it picks up all those subtle little nuances or Driving it home strumming in which is sounds like an entire string section is playing along with you. It also flat picks extremely well. I was sold in the first three minutes of playing that guitar and not because of where it was made but because of what the guitar itself had to offer. It is on my never sell no matter what list.

Bottom line is all guitars are different in my opinion even of the same model and woods. I have heard late 70's F50's that sounded amazing and I have also played one that sounded dead. I'm sure there are examples of that from all eras of Manufacturing. It just seems to me that Maple more so than others is a tonewood that you need to try out in person to make sure that particular guitar is what you are looking for.

I know it has been mentioned here before but I know of a Mom and Pop shop that won't order Maple Guitars unless they can play them first at the manufacturer because they have received (and I hate to use this term with guitars but) duds in the past that they don't want sitting on the wall for 2 years not selling.

TX
 

idealassets

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After buying my first Guild guitar in 2010 I found my way to this site and learned a bit about the Guild lore. The guitar was a beautiful 2007 F50r with DTAR, which I re-sold after owning 18 months. I wanted to make room for an F312, F512, and a D55; which all did happen with a lot of patience.

If I had learned sooner I would have kept a few of the better Guild's that I owned in the past, some of which I let go at a small profit. Additionally I recall a particular Gibson SJ200 Montana Gold that I should have gotten but chickened out for $3100- that guitar played and looked beautiful. As has been stated here, there is such a thing as a sweet spot, a dud, or many other characteristics. Additionally there can be flaws in the appearance that make or break a guitar.

With an ever increasing number of Guild enthusiasts out there, hopefully there may be a few utterly fantastic condition guitars to be found. One need only stay in the hunt to find out.
 

fronobulax

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I know it has been mentioned here before but I know of a Mom and Pop shop that won't order Maple Guitars unless they can play them first at the manufacturer because they have received (and I hate to use this term with guitars but) duds in the past that they don't want sitting on the wall for 2 years not selling.

TX

I don't recall it but I forget a lot. That collaborates my story so we now know of two shops that insist on "Try before buy" for maple instruments.
 
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I agree with TX...my N.H. F-50 is just flat out amazing! One of the best guitars I have ever owned, and the DTAR system is a real gem! In fact, I played it on my last two gigs (gave the black JF30 a rest!) and just fell in love with it all over again! It cut through the band and sounded so good! I just don't take it out too often, I'm playing clubs, and I'd like to keep this baby as close to pristine as I possibly can, for as long as I can!

However, I played an old mid-70's F-50 at a large vintage guitar dealer here in So Cal...and it was a CANNON! Huge sound, bell-like projection...but it fretted out where the neck joins the body and he wanted WAY too much $ and wouldn't deal! Glad he didn't, actually, or I wouldn't have found the one I have!
Played a couple of Gibsons he had there...one was a complete dud, just sort of flat and dull, and it wasn't just the strings...one sounded almost as good as the Guild, and one sounded just about as nice, but for a thousand dollars more...so, no thanks.

But after missing out on the last one, I'm going to find a nice Tacoma-built F-50R! That will round out my collection of vintage American Guild Jumbos nicely. So far I have Westerly, NH. and Corona maple jumbos, and my jumbo-sized dread (G-41) with mahogany back and sides...so a Tacoma rosewood would be perfect!
 

refret

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Acoustics from the mid 70s on were hit or miss as far as the "dud" effect I have found. It seems that Guild and Martin started making their flat tops heavier, Martin sooner, in the late 60s, Guild followed suit from what I've seem around 1973, adding that sound killing huge hunk of rosewood for a bridgeplate. I have read Martin articles admitting that they consider that being the worse mistake they made. And they are very hard to remove. It takes a lot of heat for a long time and more patience than most people have. I have removed many, it was one job that I hated to do but resulted in a much better sound. (Not anymore, I have since hung up my apron, too old, eyes suck.)
 
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