Guild F4CE-NT?

swiveltung

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Are there different versions of this guitar? I see images of some with no binding on the back (kinda look like the milled out songbird type body) and I see images of double bound ones that look more like a traditional acoustic guitar. The guild spec says only 3" deep, but the double bound ones appear a bit deeper to my eyes... ? Some have a truss rod cover that says "True American" on them.. what is that?
 

dreadnut

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There are the "F" models and the "D" models, the D's are standard dread depth but the F's are 3". Don't expect the F's to sound like much acoustically, they're an electric guitar made to be plugged in. One of my friends has an F5CE, and one has a D5CE. "True American" was engraved into the TRC's for a time; I think it was in the '80's and '90's.
 
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adorshki

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Are there different versions of this guitar?
There are several different models of the "FXXce" series, but the F4ce was the entry level: 'Hog archback body and minimal bling.
While it does superficially resemble the S4ce's and Songbirds, they're completely different animals.
ALL the S4's are solid 'hog routed bodies, but all of the "Fxxce's" are traditional acoustic built instruments with a cutaway and UST.
All of 'em are based on the F40 body outline (16" lower bout width)
I see images of some with no binding on the back (kinda look like the milled out songbird type body) and I see images of double bound ones that look more like a traditional acoustic guitar. The guild spec says only 3" deep, but the double bound ones appear a bit deeper to my eyes... ?
Depends on the model.
Some of the Fxxce's were 4-1/2 or even 4.8" inches, those were based on F47 body depth, but others like my F65ce are only 3" deep.
Also, early (pre '94) versions had a shortscale neck (24-3/4" neck, usually with 1-11/16" nut), while later (post '94) versions had a 25-5/8 scale neck, usually with 1-5/8 nut.
See the Westerly Guild Guitars website for a pretty comprehensive overview of the variations.
You have to go all the way down to the "Grand Auditorium" section to see 'em.
The F15 and F45/F47 series are the deeper bodies while the others tend to the 3" deep bodies.
It's also been observed that the earlier shortscale models are the ones that are likely to be less loud acoustically, especially the F65ce's that have maple tops, but I can tell you my '01 F65ce with spruce top and long scale gives up very little to my dreadnoughts acoustically.

Some have a truss rod cover that says "True American" on them.. what is that?
I've only seen that TRC on dreadnought bodies, never on "F" bodies.
It was a marketing logo more than anything else, used by Guild to call attention to their line of acoustic-electric dreadnoughts starting with the DCE-1, DCE-3 and DCE-5, which were new and priced to fight the Japanese influx of low-priced A/E dreadnoughts in the early '90's.
They were supposed to have the most natural amplified acoustic sound of any instrument on the market at the time.
Nothing "special" about the builds, just the TRC, which is gold silk-screen, not engraving.
I think they just made a whole lot of TRC's and started putting 'em on D4's and D25's too (mine has one) until they ran out.
You can see the DCE-1 has the "True American" TRC on the Westerly Guild Guitars site, and the photo is from an earlier catalog than the '99 dated spec sheet, but the 2 other DCE's shown there don't have the TRC and appear to be photos from later catalogs.
The '97 catalog has a "NEW TRUE AMERICAN" header over the D4HG which had just been introduced, for example.
 
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swiveltung

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I picked up the Westerly F4CE FT HR , got a bargain and it's pretty nice. A good compliment to my little Songbird. Feels like the same neck... very comfortable.
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Swiveltung, there are many variations of the F4CE model depending on the year it was made.
E.g. at first they were built with 24 frets but at some point with 20.
Right now I have 2 F4CE, first one (1995) with no binding on the back and the second (1996) with binding on the back.
Haven't seen one with a T.A. truss rod cover but if it was original (and not replaced from a late D4CE) that would be one of the last Westerly made F4CE.
 

beecee

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I picked up the Westerly F4CE FT HR , got a bargain and it's pretty nice. A good compliment to my little Songbird. Feels like the same neck... very comfortable.

I got a good deal on mine too, a little pick rash around sound hole.

Sounds pretty darned good plugged in but I use it primarily for when I want to play low key, late night...kinda like my Songbird too!
 

swiveltung

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Swiveltung, there are many variations of the F4CE model depending on the year it was made.
E.g. at first they were built with 24 frets but at some point with 20.
Right now I have 2 F4CE, first one (1995) with no binding on the back and the second (1996) with binding on the back.
Haven't seen one with a T.A. truss rod cover but if it was original (and not replaced from a late D4CE) that would be one of the last Westerly made F4CE.

I see this old thread got a couple recent responses. I'm still liking mine a lot. Bigger bottom end than my Songbird plugged in. 25.5 scale. A lot better acoutic guitar when not plugged in than I thought it would be. Probably because of the true hollowbody construction as opposed to the milled out body type. Mine does have the True American truss rod cover. Binding on the back, original case and bling so I think it's all original. It was an "offer I couldn't refuse".

 
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adorshki

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I see this old thread got a couple recent responses. I'm still liking mine a lot. Bigger bottom end than my Songbird plugged in. 25.5 scale. A lot better acoutic guitar when not plugged in than I thought it would be. Probably because of the true hollowbody construction as opposed to the milled out body type. Mine does have the True American truss rod cover. Binding on the back, original case and bling so I think it's all original. It was an "offer I couldn't refuse".


Its upside down and it's the first time I've seen one on an "F-ce" model, but it supports my suspicion that at some point they just started putting 'em on anything (like my D25) just to use 'em up.
 

swiveltung

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Its upside down and it's the first time I've seen one on an "F-ce" model, but it supports my suspicion that at some point they just started putting 'em on anything (like my D25) just to use 'em up.

yeah it is upside down. One wonders if even some factory workers put them that way...? When removed it is obvious from fading that it's been that way a long time with no indication of previous fading that it was ever the other way around.
 

swiveltung

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Its upside down and it's the first time I've seen one on an "F-ce" model, but it supports my suspicion that at some point they just started putting 'em on anything (like my D25) just to use 'em up.

yeah it is upside down. One wonders if even some factory workers put them that way...? When removed it is obvious from fading that it's been that way a long time with no indication of previous fading that it was ever the other way around.
 

adorshki

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yeah it is upside down. One wonders if even some factory workers put them that way...?
That would surprise me greatly because it would still have to pass QC, and the guy who strung 'em up before they went out the door, who used to post here a long time ago...
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Its upside down and it's the first time I've seen one on an "F-ce" model, but it supports my suspicion that at some point they just started putting 'em on anything (like my D25) just to use 'em up.

Totally agree.Truss rod cover is upside down.Either towards the last years of production they started using the T.A. cover or it was "borrowed" from a D4.
 

adorshki

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Totally agree.Truss rod cover is upside down.Either towards the last years of production they started using the T.A. cover or it was "borrowed" from a D4.
Back then (early-through-late '90's) a store like a Guitar Center could get several at a time, and might actually do the truss-rod check or even a full set-up, especially for display instruments..I suspect it might have been reversed then, although still, that's a pretty glaring goof when the script's obviously upside down.
It might also be a way for the "swap" between a D4 and that piece to have happened.
However, in counterpoint, all 3 of mine came out of the box right at factory set-up spec so I always assumed that stores had to do minimal if any set-up work.
When I was shopping my D25 I had a choice of 3 on display if you count a DCE-1, and I don't remember that one having the "True American" cover; but I do remember preferring the pearloid inlay on the D25 headstock as well as the script on the TRC.
The whole point was I was buying my first really good guitar and it had to be American-made, and that TRC just drove the point home.
At the time I had no clue about the "significance" of those little details or that the TRC might actually have been swapped from the D4ce in the store, if for example they both happened to have been getting "tweaked" at the same time.
I just knew the '25 had the best neck and playability I'd ever felt in my life and when the salesclerk offered me "a brand new one still in the box from the back", I said "No thanks, THIS one".
For this story the point of that anecdote was that unlike today, it was possible to find multiple examples of the same model even, in a single store... and also makes me realize that it was possible the D25 "in the back" may not have had the TRC, or even been "set-up" yet.
At the time all I knew was that the one I wanted was the one that had the best playability of 3 I had to choose from.
I didn't even know about "set-up", I just thought they had to be "built right" from the get-go.
 
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jte

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I had an F4CE for a short while, around 2000 or so, purchased used from New Hope Guitar Traders. Not much of an acoustic guitar, impossibly (for me) narrow nut width, and didn't really sound that good amplified. It soon was traded towards an F47CE.
 

jcwu

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I had an F4CE for a short while, around 2000 or so, purchased used from New Hope Guitar Traders. Not much of an acoustic guitar, impossibly (for me) narrow nut width, and didn't really sound that good amplified. It soon was traded towards an F47CE.

I also did not like the sound of my F4CE unplugged or amplified.. until I put an LR Baggs LB6 pickup in there (took out the whole old pickup and preamp system). Plugged in sound was SO much better.
 
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