Does anyone know what this is?

adorshki said:

The headstock shape and the "rooftop" look correct and logos are properly located....

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Actually Al if you look closely at the headstock inlays, The "Guild" roof top logo is off center to the treble side by one letter and the actual Chesterfield is even more off centered towards the treble side of the headstock. The Chesterfield inlay being off centered is really visible in the picture of the Truss rod cavity that Bonneville posted above in post #17 of this thread.

One other thing that stands out to me is the lack of the word "Guild" branded or burned into back spine support inside the soundhole.

Just a few observations of course.

TX

TX... 1973 Guild D40 headstock... check out the noticeably off center Chesterfied... GUILD slightly
off-centered as well. Guessing this was a not-uncommon condition on Guilds of this time period.

Bonneville88 said:

TX... 1973 Guild D40 headstock... check out the noticeably off center Chesterfied... GUILD slightly
off-centered as well. Guessing this was a not-uncommon condition on Guilds of this time period.

Click to expand...

In fact I was astounded to see a severely off-centered logo actually pictured in the Guild Guitar Book about a year ago. I'd never noticed it before.
I don't have it here with me to give a page ref, but I'm certain it's in the "Logos" section for those who want to look.
It kind of deflated my desire to believe that every piece they let out was impeccable. :biggrin-new:

BUT primarily I was addressing the location of the top of the chesterfield being between to the D & G posts and distance of the rooftop from the crown to be "in tolerance", although that was another slight detail possibly attributed to poor camera work, that the headstock looks a tiny bit "short" and maybe narrow, overall.
Could be a sign of having been modified from some other shape.
But then again the subject guitar looks like it has a headstock outline just like the D40 you just posted, while the D35 looks like it has a bit of a wider top.
In comparison that D35 you posted looks "perfect" for shape, even at an angle.
Also has the silkscreen logo that was standard for a while in early '70's "IIRC". Just don't know if the MOP rooftops ever appeared on D35's.

adorshki... was just thinking of the Johnny Cash song One Piece at a Time... and pondering
if this might be a Guild version of that!

https://youtu.be/rWHniL8MyMM

txbumper57 said:

One other thing that stands out to me is the lack of the word "Guild" branded or burned into back spine support inside the soundhole.
TX

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Yeah - I thought that too. In fact, I want back through my sound-hole label photos to confirm that the Guild brand was in all my Guilds (including the GADs) unless they were arch backs.

Did Guild ever NOT brand their flat-back guitars?

gjmalcyon said:

Yeah - I thought that too. In fact, I want back through my sound-hole label photos to confirm that the Guild brand was in all my Guilds (including the GADs) unless they were arch backs.

Did Guild ever NOT brand their flat-back guitars?

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I wondered about the lack of the brand too, but had the same question.
I don't know.
Your input gives more weight to the "Not a Guild" (body, at least) side of the scale, though.

Bonneville88 said:

TX... 1973 Guild D40 headstock... check out the noticeably off center Chesterfied... GUILD slightly
off-centered as well. Guessing this was a not-uncommon condition on Guilds of this time period.

Click to expand...

Actually this doesn't look that off centered to me. The point of the letter "I" in Guild is almost Dead Center and the bottom point of the chesterfield lines up with the top truss rod cover screw. Granted the image I am posting is taken form the side but you can see the Guild Rooftop logo off centered. Look at the location of the "I" in Guild in relation to the D40 pic you posted. Also the second photo shows how far off the point of the Chesterfield is in relation to your D40 Pic.



TX

Photo with reference verticals drawn - blue line is at center of top radius of headstock.
GUILD and Chesterfield appear aligned to each other, but Chesterfield is noticeably closer
to D tuner than the G tuner...
[/URL]

Pics of inside...

Imho, this instrument is about as far removed from a real Guild as you can get.

Again, you can make them pretty on the outside, but the inside doesn't lie. The bracing looks nothing like a Guild, and the inside of the top does not show spruce grain lines, indicating a laminated top.

Another minor point - the now visible truss rod nut is styled after Gibson's unit, rather than a period correct Guild.

In the early & mid 70's, companies like Ibanez made many models copied after Gibson's & Guilds. My guess is, this instrument's life began in a factory somewhere in Japan.

Couple more...
First photo is of underside of sound hole on mystery guitar,
the 2nd photo is of underside of sound hole what owner described as his '71 D35.

Looking at the previous photos, the top looks to like it was possibly constructed at
a different time than the sides and back. The workmanship looks crude. Would even
Japanese copies have been this sloppy looking on the inside?

Bonneville88 said:

Photo with reference verticals drawn - blue line is at center of top radius of headstock.
GUILD and Chesterfield appear aligned to each other, but Chesterfield is noticeably closer
to D tuner than the G tuner...

[/URL]

Click to expand...

Take a look at page 17 of the Guild Guitar Book, 2nd headstock from the right.
Offset so far to the left it's kinda shocking. Botton of the rooftop's virtually touching the "D" tuner and is well clear of the "G"
(Had a chance to look at it last night, and also confirmed D35's did have inlaid rooftop logos when introduced with D25's in '68, and got silkscreen logos later on, but no mention of a chesterfield through '77.
Which doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.
Right now I'm thinking somebody had some parts lying around and put something together.
A student of luthiery, maybe, practicing with parts that weren't particularly valuable at the time?
But I think it really did start as a Guild neck, that flat heel's just way too uncommon and I wouldn't expect somebody to go the trouble of replicating it, and setting a neck on a body isn't a job for an amateur.
Maybe it needed a truss replaced thus the Gibson-type nut? Fretboard'd have to come off for that, maybe coincidentally creating an opportunity to install custom overlay?
Bonneville, since you seem to have access to photos, 2 details might confirm if it's a "real" Guild neck:
The heel should not be stacked, and headstock is also of one piece with the neck.

In any case I think our new new member's getting a mid-level course in what kinds of details help confirm the authenticity of a Guild.
Like Bobuoz said, evidence of a laminated top on a flat-top acoustic almost absolutely rules it out as a Guild.
(I say "almost" because there may still be a surprise out there I've forgotten or never knew about)
And yes all the Guild interior workmanship I've ever seen is also immaculate or pretty damn close.

Interesting. This most recent photo now clearly shows grain lines on the inside around the soundhole, whereas one of the earlier photos of internal top bracing did not appear to show any such lines. Don't know what's going on for sure, but that's one rather strange guitar!

Yes, the workmanship looks very sloppy, and it could have been made anywhere, but the reason I would first consider Japanese construction is that during the early '70s, they were clearly the main players in marketing copies of US guitars. There were multiple factories operating at the time, and companies such as Ibanez did not build instruments themselves, but would contract out with these assorted companies & spec what they wanted. During the decade, Japan's quality rose sharply, and they were capable of producing an instrument at just about any price-point the buyer wanted, from crude & cheap, to nicely refined.

Yamaha was one of the first Japanese importers I can recall using a factory from outside of Japan in the early '70s, and in their case it was located in Taiwan. Otherwise, Japanese imports began dominating the entry level market, so of course Martin with Sigma, Gibson with Epiphone, and Guild with Madeira joined into the fray to capture a piece of the import pie. There were a lot of players in the low-end market, so it can be very difficult to pin down the true origin of instruments such as this one.

Adorshki, was thinking similarly on the drive to work this morning...
it looks like a possible student / amateur-built parts & pieces not-quite-Frankenguild,
that may be using a cast-off - factory 2nd? - damaged? - D40 neck. Or perhaps it was something worked on
by several individuals over time? The precision of the "PRELUDE" inlay on the headstock doesn't carry
through on the work on the inside of the guitar.

bobouz - now I want to poke around inside an early 70's Japanese copy - Madeira, Epiphone, Sigma, Ibanez, Takamine,
whatever - and see what it looks like in there.

Appreciate everybody's input - thanks again.

Regarding some of the sloppiness -- I see a lot of file marks and wonder whether somebody spent some time trying to scallop the braces in this after it was built.

I would like to thank everyone for trying to help me figure out what I call my "Mystery Guild". I would especially like to thank Bonneville 88 for going above and beyond he's not only knowledgeable but he's a great guy. I'm glad to be a member of LGT, and look forward to many more discussions about Guilds!

Squealy71 - thanks man - but I'm a lightweight around here... the depth of Guild knowledge
of the veteran members of LTG, several of whom have posted in this thread, is nothing short of amazing.
Whatever happens, stick around and participate if you can... nowhere else on the web quite like LTG!

Bonneville88 said:

There IS a truss rod!

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Yes, sorry, but you have to agree that from the first picture on the left there was no way to see it. The right picture now clearly shows it.

But the shape of the missing truss rod cover is not a Guild truss rod cover.

adorshki said:

Like Bobuoz said, evidence of a laminated top on a flat-top acoustic almost absolutely rules it out as a Guild.

Click to expand...

But the pictures clearly show a solid top...

Is this Epoxy in the pictures?



Ralf

Looks to me that somebody tried to fiberglass the joint in the middle of the X Brace. The "goop" may be resin for the fiberglass.

SFIV1967 said:

But the pictures clearly show a solid top...

Ralf

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To clarify - I stated that the top appeared to be laminated based on the group of pictures posted before these final two. In the earlier picture of bracing where the top is clearly visible, there isn't a hint of spuce grain lines in the wood.

The most recent pictures do show grain lines, but note that the last two pictures are from two different guitars. Only the top photo (without the date) is of the mystery guitar, and in this picture it does look like it's sporting a solid top.